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Brooks Gremmels
09-23-2002, 08:28 AM
I'm guessing that there were more red flags thrown yesterday than any day this season. It's hard to understand why some events are basically incident-free and others are just the opposite. The crashes involved experienced racers as well as new riders and Amateurs. I spent time in the tower during the races with Barry McMahan and Bryan Norton, in Race Control, who were kept busy. The CMRA does not rent the ambulances at TWS, they come as part of the rental package. This creates a situation whereby the track directs the placement and movement of emergency vehicles. Every effort will be made before we race there next season to insure that the Club's Race Control has the authority to coordinate these vehicles.
Brooks

Brooks Gremmels
09-23-2002, 08:28 AM
I'm guessing that there were more red flags thrown yesterday than any day this season. It's hard to understand why some events are basically incident-free and others are just the opposite. The crashes involved experienced racers as well as new riders and Amateurs. I spent time in the tower during the races with Barry McMahan and Bryan Norton, in Race Control, who were kept busy. The CMRA does not rent the ambulances at TWS, they come as part of the rental package. This creates a situation whereby the track directs the placement and movement of emergency vehicles. Every effort will be made before we race there next season to insure that the Club's Race Control has the authority to coordinate these vehicles.
Brooks

marcus mcbain
09-23-2002, 09:29 AM
Brooks,

What I saw on some of the motorcycles I was working on was pretty frightening.

Cody Parrish (I think his first name was Cody) came to me for a "suspension tune-up". The first thing that was noticed was a severely cupped front tire and a rear tire with a 3 inch flat spot on it. All of this was a result of using tires that had been used heavily on the street. As soon as I saw it, I told him he had to change tires and he told me he was going to. Long story short, he didn't.

He ran off in turn 4 and was transported to the hospital. I talked to his wife last night, and he has a broken jaw and was have some issues with conciousness and his pupils. Bad stuff. His family was coming in to College Station from what I understand.

Bottom line is that the club/officials/friends can only do so much to protect the racers from themselves. I sincerely hope that each racer will reconsider their level of responsibity to themselves, other racers, but more importantly their families. The family is the one that usually carries the brunt of the pain when something serious occurs. I think each racer believes that if they make a mistake that it only affects themselves. Well it doesn't.

marcus mcbain
09-23-2002, 09:29 AM
Brooks,

What I saw on some of the motorcycles I was working on was pretty frightening.

Cody Parrish (I think his first name was Cody) came to me for a "suspension tune-up". The first thing that was noticed was a severely cupped front tire and a rear tire with a 3 inch flat spot on it. All of this was a result of using tires that had been used heavily on the street. As soon as I saw it, I told him he had to change tires and he told me he was going to. Long story short, he didn't.

He ran off in turn 4 and was transported to the hospital. I talked to his wife last night, and he has a broken jaw and was have some issues with conciousness and his pupils. Bad stuff. His family was coming in to College Station from what I understand.

Bottom line is that the club/officials/friends can only do so much to protect the racers from themselves. I sincerely hope that each racer will reconsider their level of responsibity to themselves, other racers, but more importantly their families. The family is the one that usually carries the brunt of the pain when something serious occurs. I think each racer believes that if they make a mistake that it only affects themselves. Well it doesn't.

Joseph Browning
09-23-2002, 09:45 AM
Trying to preach to the already converted-MM. Anybody riding on cupped, flat or otherwise trashed street tires isn't going to listen to what you have to say in the first place, much less heed it. Thanks for trying though, it's unfortunate. I hope he heals well and quickly.

Joseph Browning
09-23-2002, 09:45 AM
Trying to preach to the already converted-MM. Anybody riding on cupped, flat or otherwise trashed street tires isn't going to listen to what you have to say in the first place, much less heed it. Thanks for trying though, it's unfortunate. I hope he heals well and quickly.

Brooks Gremmels
09-23-2002, 09:53 AM
Marcus, that news is unbelieveable. Cody came to me about the same problem right after lunch. I brought Pete Martins over and he spent quite a bit of time talking to Cody. Cody was complaining that his bike wouldn't turn, etc. Finally Cody told us that he wasn't going to race any more, it just wasn't worth the risk. I didn't know until this minute about his crash. I hate to hear it.
Several people have said this morning that the fierce wind was playing havoc with them. Perhaps this was one of the factors leading to the flags.
Brooks

Brooks Gremmels
09-23-2002, 09:53 AM
Marcus, that news is unbelieveable. Cody came to me about the same problem right after lunch. I brought Pete Martins over and he spent quite a bit of time talking to Cody. Cody was complaining that his bike wouldn't turn, etc. Finally Cody told us that he wasn't going to race any more, it just wasn't worth the risk. I didn't know until this minute about his crash. I hate to hear it.
Several people have said this morning that the fierce wind was playing havoc with them. Perhaps this was one of the factors leading to the flags.
Brooks

marcus mcbain
09-23-2002, 10:03 AM
Brooks,

Your right, I don't know exactly WHY Cody had the crash, but if the racers are in the state of mind that THEY would go out on tires like he had what other bad decisions are they making? There is usually consistency with the thinking process in this regard.

Marcus

marcus mcbain
09-23-2002, 10:03 AM
Brooks,

Your right, I don't know exactly WHY Cody had the crash, but if the racers are in the state of mind that THEY would go out on tires like he had what other bad decisions are they making? There is usually consistency with the thinking process in this regard.

Marcus

Michael D. Henry
09-23-2002, 10:04 AM
Maybe it was Full Moon Fever

Michael D. Henry
09-23-2002, 10:04 AM
Maybe it was Full Moon Fever

E. Templet
09-23-2002, 10:51 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Marcus McBain:
Brooks,

Your right, I don't know exactly WHY Cody had the crash, but if the racers are in the state of mind that THEY would go out on tires like he had what other bad decisions are they making? There is usually consistency with the thinking process in this regard.

Marcus</div></div>Speaking like the Democrat I truly am not....we need some sort of system in place (more government)for racers to report an unsafe bike or situation to someone that can "evaluate the situation and enforce compliance". (i.e. notify pit lane that the bike cannot enter the track until tech. verifies the changes/repairs have been made). Perhaps we already have this, but I am not aware of it. An unsafe machine is just that, unsafe for the rider and everyone around him.

I'm no tire genius (Tadlock is my tire dude), but I read on the side of the Dunlops on the Aprilia that went down "Race Replica". Is this a street tire?

E. Templet
09-23-2002, 10:51 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Marcus McBain:
Brooks,

Your right, I don't know exactly WHY Cody had the crash, but if the racers are in the state of mind that THEY would go out on tires like he had what other bad decisions are they making? There is usually consistency with the thinking process in this regard.

Marcus</div></div>Speaking like the Democrat I truly am not....we need some sort of system in place (more government)for racers to report an unsafe bike or situation to someone that can "evaluate the situation and enforce compliance". (i.e. notify pit lane that the bike cannot enter the track until tech. verifies the changes/repairs have been made). Perhaps we already have this, but I am not aware of it. An unsafe machine is just that, unsafe for the rider and everyone around him.

I'm no tire genius (Tadlock is my tire dude), but I read on the side of the Dunlops on the Aprilia that went down "Race Replica". Is this a street tire?

Steve McNamara
09-23-2002, 10:52 AM
Red Flag/Rider Safety
There were several experienced riders as well as Prov/Am's that went down this weekend.
Remember when we thought Hallet backwards would be a crash fest?

I think there should be some form of enforcing attendance to the riders meeting.
I saw new Prov Novs in practice looking over their shoulders,moving over out of the way of faster riders,and having very weird lines. I asked Walter to mention these issues in the riders meeting which he did.
I purposely left the meeting a little early to look into the pits to see how many riders did not attend the meeting. Let's say about half the pits were full of riders that did not attend.
I understand some multi-year racers may not need advice on holding their line,and not looking over their shoulder during a race, but I think some new riders may not understand how important that meeting may be to their safety as well as the other riders in their races. Maybe they look at some of the riders not in attendance and think "if they don't go, why should I".
I saw bikes this weekend pass tech. with bald tires, no front pinch bolts or axles wire tied etc. I talked to the rider with the front bolts not tied, and begged the bald tire rider to find some take offs, or buy new rubber.

I know how hard our volunteers work in this club. They do a TON of work sometimes over loaded with many different tasks throughout the day/weekend. They can not hold everyones hand that needs to be saved from themselves as Marcus posted.
There is no substitute for track time and experience. The CMRA needs new racers in our club to help it thrive and prosper. Our organization has made every effort possible to educate our graduates from the LSTD race license school in the fundamentals of flags,race day procedures,and foremost how to ride safely slow or fast on the track. The number of overly slow riders during practice surprised me. Some riders would be slow in our "B" group track day session. I am still slow by race standards barely breaking the 2:00 min lap mark at TWS. My personal race best a 1:59.4 so don't let this post fool you into thinking I'm going off on new racers. I just feel something needs to happen to let them understand the consequences of their actions.
In my last race of the day M.W. G.P/AM a rider was STOPPED in the inside of the back straight between 7-8. Feet down looking behind him. He should have been off the track waiting for the race to end before he proceeded back to the pits.
I'm not sure if he had mech. problems or had ridden of the track, and decided to try to make it back before the checkered flag had been thrown??? Not good by any means!!!
I think that the first step may be to enforce the manditory riders meeting constantly taking the time to reinforce the basics that some riders forgot, or failed to remember. It's an idea/start.

Steve McNamara
09-23-2002, 10:52 AM
Red Flag/Rider Safety
There were several experienced riders as well as Prov/Am's that went down this weekend.
Remember when we thought Hallet backwards would be a crash fest?

I think there should be some form of enforcing attendance to the riders meeting.
I saw new Prov Novs in practice looking over their shoulders,moving over out of the way of faster riders,and having very weird lines. I asked Walter to mention these issues in the riders meeting which he did.
I purposely left the meeting a little early to look into the pits to see how many riders did not attend the meeting. Let's say about half the pits were full of riders that did not attend.
I understand some multi-year racers may not need advice on holding their line,and not looking over their shoulder during a race, but I think some new riders may not understand how important that meeting may be to their safety as well as the other riders in their races. Maybe they look at some of the riders not in attendance and think "if they don't go, why should I".
I saw bikes this weekend pass tech. with bald tires, no front pinch bolts or axles wire tied etc. I talked to the rider with the front bolts not tied, and begged the bald tire rider to find some take offs, or buy new rubber.

I know how hard our volunteers work in this club. They do a TON of work sometimes over loaded with many different tasks throughout the day/weekend. They can not hold everyones hand that needs to be saved from themselves as Marcus posted.
There is no substitute for track time and experience. The CMRA needs new racers in our club to help it thrive and prosper. Our organization has made every effort possible to educate our graduates from the LSTD race license school in the fundamentals of flags,race day procedures,and foremost how to ride safely slow or fast on the track. The number of overly slow riders during practice surprised me. Some riders would be slow in our "B" group track day session. I am still slow by race standards barely breaking the 2:00 min lap mark at TWS. My personal race best a 1:59.4 so don't let this post fool you into thinking I'm going off on new racers. I just feel something needs to happen to let them understand the consequences of their actions.
In my last race of the day M.W. G.P/AM a rider was STOPPED in the inside of the back straight between 7-8. Feet down looking behind him. He should have been off the track waiting for the race to end before he proceeded back to the pits.
I'm not sure if he had mech. problems or had ridden of the track, and decided to try to make it back before the checkered flag had been thrown??? Not good by any means!!!
I think that the first step may be to enforce the manditory riders meeting constantly taking the time to reinforce the basics that some riders forgot, or failed to remember. It's an idea/start.

ChuckMcCoy
09-23-2002, 11:00 AM
Observations on Saturday from turn 6 cornerworker:

1. Way too many customers - 4 in the impact zone and 3 ride up mechanicals.

2. One of our crashers - don't remember which - had a bike that showed obvious signs of a frightening lack of maintenance. Helping load the crash truck I noticed the chain had rust all over it, so wiped it with my finger and came up with NO evidence of lubricant. It was still on the sprockets, so probably not the cause of this crash. Wonder what a close pre-crash inspection would have revealed about the overall condition of the machine???

3. My corner mate and I watched one bike with horror as lap after lap he didn't crash out right in front of us. Kind of lost track of all the scary, unstable moves this bike made. He eventually became a spectacular 1 bike event at another corner; glad the rider was OK. Didn't see the bike, was told it was totally destroyed, which makes sense because we saw the crash from a distance.

My $.02 worth:
We all know there are thoughtless riders among us. There doesn't seem to be any good way to help them become thoughtful. It's one thing to inexperienced - I was there and because I went around asking and listening to the answers I'm beginning to get it. The problem is the guys that don't get it and don't know they don't.

That problem is too big for me - I just wanna race in a fun, safe (all things are relative), family environment! CMRA rocks. Sadly, it isn't possible to pass out clues at the gate or even in riders school.

BTW, it's been a great year of racing for me and was a VERY GOOD experience spending a day cornerworking now that I've got a good amount of races behind me.

Chuck
CMRA 659 Am – and damn proud of it!

ChuckMcCoy
09-23-2002, 11:00 AM
Observations on Saturday from turn 6 cornerworker:

1. Way too many customers - 4 in the impact zone and 3 ride up mechanicals.

2. One of our crashers - don't remember which - had a bike that showed obvious signs of a frightening lack of maintenance. Helping load the crash truck I noticed the chain had rust all over it, so wiped it with my finger and came up with NO evidence of lubricant. It was still on the sprockets, so probably not the cause of this crash. Wonder what a close pre-crash inspection would have revealed about the overall condition of the machine???

3. My corner mate and I watched one bike with horror as lap after lap he didn't crash out right in front of us. Kind of lost track of all the scary, unstable moves this bike made. He eventually became a spectacular 1 bike event at another corner; glad the rider was OK. Didn't see the bike, was told it was totally destroyed, which makes sense because we saw the crash from a distance.

My $.02 worth:
We all know there are thoughtless riders among us. There doesn't seem to be any good way to help them become thoughtful. It's one thing to inexperienced - I was there and because I went around asking and listening to the answers I'm beginning to get it. The problem is the guys that don't get it and don't know they don't.

That problem is too big for me - I just wanna race in a fun, safe (all things are relative), family environment! CMRA rocks. Sadly, it isn't possible to pass out clues at the gate or even in riders school.

BTW, it's been a great year of racing for me and was a VERY GOOD experience spending a day cornerworking now that I've got a good amount of races behind me.

Chuck
CMRA 659 Am – and damn proud of it!

Brooks Gremmels
09-23-2002, 11:38 AM
I was at the pit entrance gate when a rider was stopped from going onto the track. His rear tire had thread showing. David Hirsh was summoned and he confirmed the decision to keep the bike off the track. I have felt that our tech people are doing a good job but it sounds liek we need to redouble our effort in that area.
Peer pressure is the strongest motivation for change. Every year at least 1/3 of the riders in the pits are new to this sport. Lets take time to give them a hand, showing them the ropes.
Finally, I have been rounding up riders for the rider's meetings all season. The BOD is aware that casual attendance is a problem and is working on "incentives" to encourage attendance.
brooks

Brooks Gremmels
09-23-2002, 11:38 AM
I was at the pit entrance gate when a rider was stopped from going onto the track. His rear tire had thread showing. David Hirsh was summoned and he confirmed the decision to keep the bike off the track. I have felt that our tech people are doing a good job but it sounds liek we need to redouble our effort in that area.
Peer pressure is the strongest motivation for change. Every year at least 1/3 of the riders in the pits are new to this sport. Lets take time to give them a hand, showing them the ropes.
Finally, I have been rounding up riders for the rider's meetings all season. The BOD is aware that casual attendance is a problem and is working on "incentives" to encourage attendance.
brooks

SMILEYMAN
09-23-2002, 11:55 AM
Well, full moon fever or wind or whatever there were too many crashes! I was one red flag and one crash victim. Both of mine were just weird occurences, no riding over my head or bad traffic.
All I have to say is Thank God for the Air Fence! It saved serious injury and possibly my life. A seemingly innocent lowside which got ugly real quick. Thanks to all the overworked corner workers, we appreciate someone being there when the world stops spinning! And a big thanks to Walter for being alert and finding me under the air fence and tire wall.
Lets hope that this was just a one time, bad karma, full moon kind of thing. Smileyman CMRA506!

SMILEYMAN
09-23-2002, 11:55 AM
Well, full moon fever or wind or whatever there were too many crashes! I was one red flag and one crash victim. Both of mine were just weird occurences, no riding over my head or bad traffic.
All I have to say is Thank God for the Air Fence! It saved serious injury and possibly my life. A seemingly innocent lowside which got ugly real quick. Thanks to all the overworked corner workers, we appreciate someone being there when the world stops spinning! And a big thanks to Walter for being alert and finding me under the air fence and tire wall.
Lets hope that this was just a one time, bad karma, full moon kind of thing. Smileyman CMRA506!

RisingR
09-23-2002, 01:27 PM
Brooks, I wasn't there this weekend but had a thought about rider's meeting attendance. Require racers to bring their helmets to rider's meeting and then put a sticker on the front of it, similar to tech, when the meeting dismisses. If there is no rider's meeting sticker on the helmet then they cannot enter the track. Obviously people could get around this if they try but it is better than nothing.
The CMRA is obviously growing, which is great, but that also means the workforce is giong to have to grow to keep great, quality racing.

Rollin Rising

RisingR
09-23-2002, 01:27 PM
Brooks, I wasn't there this weekend but had a thought about rider's meeting attendance. Require racers to bring their helmets to rider's meeting and then put a sticker on the front of it, similar to tech, when the meeting dismisses. If there is no rider's meeting sticker on the helmet then they cannot enter the track. Obviously people could get around this if they try but it is better than nothing.
The CMRA is obviously growing, which is great, but that also means the workforce is giong to have to grow to keep great, quality racing.

Rollin Rising

E. Templet
09-23-2002, 01:27 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by CHRIS SMILEY:
Well, full moon fever or wind or whatever there were too many crashes! I was one red flag and one crash victim. ... <snip>.... Lets hope that this was just a one time, bad karma, full moon kind of thing. Smileyman CMRA506!</div></div>This may sting a bit. You went in too deep in turn 2 at OH and ran off the track while racing with me, you postioned yourself to be punted off the track entering turn 11 at TWS by trying to get around my outside there (lucky I saw you), and you toss it in turn 8 at TWS. And, I'm sure there were other accidents or near misses this season for you. You have "Good" Karma my friend. "Over your head" is where you live on the track. Riding with you in 2 races has caused me many a ponderous moment, trying to understand the motivation behind the actions, not just yours but others as well. It's almost like riders have something to prove.

Perhaps this is not the best place to discuss this, but Delmar and I do not want to be downed by a guy with a "go for it" attitude. I have the rest of my life to improve my riding, and I'm in no hurry. I mean you no harm in this but certainly hope you take a long hard look at your attitude on the track, before you seriously injure yourself of someone else. If you get a little horn, just beep it when you're behind me, I can assure you that, no matter what else, I'll definitely get out of the way...way out of the way.

E. Templet
09-23-2002, 01:27 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by CHRIS SMILEY:
Well, full moon fever or wind or whatever there were too many crashes! I was one red flag and one crash victim. ... <snip>.... Lets hope that this was just a one time, bad karma, full moon kind of thing. Smileyman CMRA506!</div></div>This may sting a bit. You went in too deep in turn 2 at OH and ran off the track while racing with me, you postioned yourself to be punted off the track entering turn 11 at TWS by trying to get around my outside there (lucky I saw you), and you toss it in turn 8 at TWS. And, I'm sure there were other accidents or near misses this season for you. You have "Good" Karma my friend. "Over your head" is where you live on the track. Riding with you in 2 races has caused me many a ponderous moment, trying to understand the motivation behind the actions, not just yours but others as well. It's almost like riders have something to prove.

Perhaps this is not the best place to discuss this, but Delmar and I do not want to be downed by a guy with a "go for it" attitude. I have the rest of my life to improve my riding, and I'm in no hurry. I mean you no harm in this but certainly hope you take a long hard look at your attitude on the track, before you seriously injure yourself of someone else. If you get a little horn, just beep it when you're behind me, I can assure you that, no matter what else, I'll definitely get out of the way...way out of the way.

jseitz
09-23-2002, 01:28 PM
I'd just like to add one more voice echoing the sentiment that we (experienced types) need to take the initiative to give instruciton to those that clearly need it. Afterall we all share the same track. Next time you see some half-assed wrenching taking place in the pits, take a second to point out how to do it right.

I remember one novice endurance team just jamming their turkey pan up under their bike w/ no wire or other type of fasteners. Needless to say I let 'em know how to properly secure it and they were very grateful for the help - and I didn't have to dodge a 5 quart foil pan during the endurance race. I'm sure there are a lot of stories out there such as this. Let's not leave it entirely to the tech guys to catch everything.

Jesse

jseitz
09-23-2002, 01:28 PM
I'd just like to add one more voice echoing the sentiment that we (experienced types) need to take the initiative to give instruciton to those that clearly need it. Afterall we all share the same track. Next time you see some half-assed wrenching taking place in the pits, take a second to point out how to do it right.

I remember one novice endurance team just jamming their turkey pan up under their bike w/ no wire or other type of fasteners. Needless to say I let 'em know how to properly secure it and they were very grateful for the help - and I didn't have to dodge a 5 quart foil pan during the endurance race. I'm sure there are a lot of stories out there such as this. Let's not leave it entirely to the tech guys to catch everything.

Jesse

ChuckMcCoy
09-23-2002, 01:58 PM
Guys - the problem is not the inexperienced, it is the inexperienced who don't/won't/can't accept the coaching. Hate to name names, but the point is perfectly made by our Ben Bostrom Wannabe member. Been coached by the best of the best within our club about taking it easy during his time as a rookie; but Ben Jr. apparently can't hear the message. Not to say he was the problem this weekend (except for flagrant violation of pit bike rules). Just to say, the guys that want help quickly realize it's available from almost anyone at almost anytime; the guys that need help are (usually) offered it by their neighbors.

The problem is the guys (gals don't usually have this problem) that need help, but when offered it don't accept it.

So, how do you force someone to change their ways if they don't think their ways are bad? Can't have a rule against being foolish.

BTW, pushing "a little too hard" and/or "riding over your head" is something we've all done and hopefully us yellow plates learn a little better every race on these subjects. My opinion is that we've just got to live with the fact there are a few "type A" personalities out here :-)

What is really scary is the wild and woolie and don't know or care guys. Inexperience can be cured by education and experience; stupid is forever.

Chuck
# 659 Am

ChuckMcCoy
09-23-2002, 01:58 PM
Guys - the problem is not the inexperienced, it is the inexperienced who don't/won't/can't accept the coaching. Hate to name names, but the point is perfectly made by our Ben Bostrom Wannabe member. Been coached by the best of the best within our club about taking it easy during his time as a rookie; but Ben Jr. apparently can't hear the message. Not to say he was the problem this weekend (except for flagrant violation of pit bike rules). Just to say, the guys that want help quickly realize it's available from almost anyone at almost anytime; the guys that need help are (usually) offered it by their neighbors.

The problem is the guys (gals don't usually have this problem) that need help, but when offered it don't accept it.

So, how do you force someone to change their ways if they don't think their ways are bad? Can't have a rule against being foolish.

BTW, pushing "a little too hard" and/or "riding over your head" is something we've all done and hopefully us yellow plates learn a little better every race on these subjects. My opinion is that we've just got to live with the fact there are a few "type A" personalities out here :-)

What is really scary is the wild and woolie and don't know or care guys. Inexperience can be cured by education and experience; stupid is forever.

Chuck
# 659 Am

waytooslow
09-23-2002, 02:28 PM
Chuck... I need all the help I can get, and would glady accept any input... Maybe a mentor program needs to be put into place, that all prov novs could benefit by. maybe even required??

I am going to run my first race at msr in october. and any help I can get is great.. plus I don't wnat to be the fastest guy on the track, just want to have a good time, learn and maybe just maybe, get a little faster.

Scott

waytooslow
09-23-2002, 02:28 PM
Chuck... I need all the help I can get, and would glady accept any input... Maybe a mentor program needs to be put into place, that all prov novs could benefit by. maybe even required??

I am going to run my first race at msr in october. and any help I can get is great.. plus I don't wnat to be the fastest guy on the track, just want to have a good time, learn and maybe just maybe, get a little faster.

Scott

SMILEYMAN
09-23-2002, 03:19 PM
Eugene, Sorry I scare ya bro'But don't let my aggressive racing mislead you to believe that I would put any fellow racer in danger intentionally. I have been 'round since about 98 sprinting,endurancing,and practicing and not once have I sent someone else off the track intentionally or accidentally.
As for near misses, I have bitten off more than I can chew several times, even gone down because of it, but you can't broaden your limits if you don't test them. I have ridden off track several times, crashed 5 times since I was a prov nov, 2 of those were mechanically related. I learned something from each of those crashes and near misses.
As for a horn...I lost it in the Air Fence last weekend so you'll just have to watch out for me when you go by.
Your SV was running better at the world with your carbs mixing right. And your maturity and expierience shows in your riding. To cut it short, if you want to give me advice or mentor me, fine I'll listen, but if you want criticize me...understand me first. Smileyman /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

SMILEYMAN
09-23-2002, 03:19 PM
Eugene, Sorry I scare ya bro'But don't let my aggressive racing mislead you to believe that I would put any fellow racer in danger intentionally. I have been 'round since about 98 sprinting,endurancing,and practicing and not once have I sent someone else off the track intentionally or accidentally.
As for near misses, I have bitten off more than I can chew several times, even gone down because of it, but you can't broaden your limits if you don't test them. I have ridden off track several times, crashed 5 times since I was a prov nov, 2 of those were mechanically related. I learned something from each of those crashes and near misses.
As for a horn...I lost it in the Air Fence last weekend so you'll just have to watch out for me when you go by.
Your SV was running better at the world with your carbs mixing right. And your maturity and expierience shows in your riding. To cut it short, if you want to give me advice or mentor me, fine I'll listen, but if you want criticize me...understand me first. Smileyman /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

GlennET
09-23-2002, 03:36 PM
:rolleyes:

GlennET
09-23-2002, 03:36 PM
:rolleyes:

GlennET
09-23-2002, 03:37 PM
I'm new to all this and have been watching the boards and asking questions for the last 6 months. I have my racing certificate from LSTD and will be sending it in for my license soon. All the points brought up are valid enough and being a new racer seem quite intimidating. After reading all this, I question whether I should pursue racing or just stick to track days.
That being said, what happened to the mentoring program? Is that still something that is in the works? I'm guessing that it might be intened for younger racers, but I could sure use it. I've just bought a RS 125 and plan on racing. I certainly need all the instruction I can get. I'd really like to avoid the mistakes that went on at TWS. My .02.

Later

Glenn Terrell

GlennET
09-23-2002, 03:37 PM
I'm new to all this and have been watching the boards and asking questions for the last 6 months. I have my racing certificate from LSTD and will be sending it in for my license soon. All the points brought up are valid enough and being a new racer seem quite intimidating. After reading all this, I question whether I should pursue racing or just stick to track days.
That being said, what happened to the mentoring program? Is that still something that is in the works? I'm guessing that it might be intened for younger racers, but I could sure use it. I've just bought a RS 125 and plan on racing. I certainly need all the instruction I can get. I'd really like to avoid the mistakes that went on at TWS. My .02.

Later

Glenn Terrell

ysr612
09-23-2002, 03:42 PM
with a 125 there is no shortage of good riders that will be happy to help you. I am not one of them but quite a few have offered me help. If you see any one on a gp bike 125 or 80 do not hesitate to ask.

ysr612
09-23-2002, 03:42 PM
with a 125 there is no shortage of good riders that will be happy to help you. I am not one of them but quite a few have offered me help. If you see any one on a gp bike 125 or 80 do not hesitate to ask.

waytooslow
09-23-2002, 03:47 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After reading all this, I question whether I should pursue racing or just stick to track days.
</div></div>My sentiments exactly.... mentor program would be lots of help... IMHO

scott

waytooslow
09-23-2002, 03:47 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After reading all this, I question whether I should pursue racing or just stick to track days.
</div></div>My sentiments exactly.... mentor program would be lots of help... IMHO

scott

Steve McNamara
09-23-2002, 03:53 PM
Glenn and Scott,
Don't think for a minute that you guys will not make good racers until you try. Wade, Jeff, or myself will be happy to help answer any questions you may have. Alan Tan,one of our instructors has been racing two/smokes for awhile. The No Homeless guys,another group of our instructors are always willing to lend a hand, or advice. The thing about help is you just need to ask. If we don't know the answer, we'll sure find someone that does......... Anybody, anytime.....

Steve McNamara
09-23-2002, 03:53 PM
Glenn and Scott,
Don't think for a minute that you guys will not make good racers until you try. Wade, Jeff, or myself will be happy to help answer any questions you may have. Alan Tan,one of our instructors has been racing two/smokes for awhile. The No Homeless guys,another group of our instructors are always willing to lend a hand, or advice. The thing about help is you just need to ask. If we don't know the answer, we'll sure find someone that does......... Anybody, anytime.....

shanes moto
09-23-2002, 04:02 PM
MY .02
I THINK "ALL" PROV NOV'S AND NOVICES SHOULD BE MANDATORY ATTENDANCE AT RIDERS MEETING. MOST OF THE EXPERTS KNOW TO EITHER GO OR SEND SOMEONE OR IF THEY HAVE A RACER BUDDY WHO THEY KNOW DIDN'T GO THEY INFORM THEM, LOOK OUT FOR EACH OTHER.
AS FOR MENTORING IT IS A GREAT DEAL FOR BOTH PARTIES, "BUT" YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO WANTS THE INFORMATION YOUR GIVING THEM. I HAVE 3 OR 4 GUYS I AM WORKING WITH THIS SEASON AND SINCE BEGINNING THIS WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GREATLY INCREASE LAP TIMES AND FINISH POSITIONS WHILE ELIMINATING THE CRASHES.
ON THE TECH ISSUES, IF A MOTORCYCLE ISN'T "SAFE" IT SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED ON THE TRACK. "I DO NOT KNOW WHO THE TECH OFFICIALS ARE" SO I AM NOT CRITICIZING THEM OR THEIR WORK "BUT" IF THEY AREN'T QUALIFIED FOR THE JOB GET SOMEONE WHO IS.AN UNSAFE MOTORCYCLE IS WAY MORE DANGEROUS THAN AN UNSKILLED RIDER.
EVERYONE DOES A GREAT JOB SO KEEP IT UP, WE ARE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO BE MORE AWARE AS THE SPORT GROWS. REMEMBER, THIS IS WHAT WE WANTED WAS FOR THE SPORT TO GROW.

SHANE THORN
ACTION MOTOR SPORTS

shanes moto
09-23-2002, 04:02 PM
MY .02
I THINK "ALL" PROV NOV'S AND NOVICES SHOULD BE MANDATORY ATTENDANCE AT RIDERS MEETING. MOST OF THE EXPERTS KNOW TO EITHER GO OR SEND SOMEONE OR IF THEY HAVE A RACER BUDDY WHO THEY KNOW DIDN'T GO THEY INFORM THEM, LOOK OUT FOR EACH OTHER.
AS FOR MENTORING IT IS A GREAT DEAL FOR BOTH PARTIES, "BUT" YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO WANTS THE INFORMATION YOUR GIVING THEM. I HAVE 3 OR 4 GUYS I AM WORKING WITH THIS SEASON AND SINCE BEGINNING THIS WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GREATLY INCREASE LAP TIMES AND FINISH POSITIONS WHILE ELIMINATING THE CRASHES.
ON THE TECH ISSUES, IF A MOTORCYCLE ISN'T "SAFE" IT SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED ON THE TRACK. "I DO NOT KNOW WHO THE TECH OFFICIALS ARE" SO I AM NOT CRITICIZING THEM OR THEIR WORK "BUT" IF THEY AREN'T QUALIFIED FOR THE JOB GET SOMEONE WHO IS.AN UNSAFE MOTORCYCLE IS WAY MORE DANGEROUS THAN AN UNSKILLED RIDER.
EVERYONE DOES A GREAT JOB SO KEEP IT UP, WE ARE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO BE MORE AWARE AS THE SPORT GROWS. REMEMBER, THIS IS WHAT WE WANTED WAS FOR THE SPORT TO GROW.

SHANE THORN
ACTION MOTOR SPORTS

Keith Hertell
09-23-2002, 04:05 PM
Just ask Chuck Ergle about 125's and he won't shutup.
There happened to be a few red flags this weekend but don't let that discourage you from racing.
After reading the above posts I can see how you think it too dangerous but the post kinda make it sound WAY worse than is was.

IMHO

Keith Hertell
09-23-2002, 04:05 PM
Just ask Chuck Ergle about 125's and he won't shutup.
There happened to be a few red flags this weekend but don't let that discourage you from racing.
After reading the above posts I can see how you think it too dangerous but the post kinda make it sound WAY worse than is was.

IMHO

David Branyon
09-23-2002, 04:33 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by E. Templet:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by CHRIS SMILEY:
Well, full moon fever or wind or whatever there were too many crashes! I was one red flag and one crash victim. ... <snip>.... Lets hope that this was just a one time, bad karma, full moon kind of thing. Smileyman CMRA506!</div></div>This may sting a bit. <snip>
</div></div>Gene,
I don't believe I've met you, but respect you from your posts, but I raced very closely with Chris last time out at TWS, and was within view of him this time when he went down, and I didn't see anything that caused me concern. We were racing hard, but it was good clean hard racing.

Of course, my opinion may be discounted by the fact that I went down this weekend. I simply leaned it over a bit too far in the horseshoe until the engine case touched down and picked the tire up off the ground. For the record, aluminum has a significantly lower coef. of friction than rubber. Anyone got any cornering clearance for sale?

Good day to all.

David Branyon
09-23-2002, 04:33 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by E. Templet:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by CHRIS SMILEY:
Well, full moon fever or wind or whatever there were too many crashes! I was one red flag and one crash victim. ... <snip>.... Lets hope that this was just a one time, bad karma, full moon kind of thing. Smileyman CMRA506!</div></div>This may sting a bit. <snip>
</div></div>Gene,
I don't believe I've met you, but respect you from your posts, but I raced very closely with Chris last time out at TWS, and was within view of him this time when he went down, and I didn't see anything that caused me concern. We were racing hard, but it was good clean hard racing.

Of course, my opinion may be discounted by the fact that I went down this weekend. I simply leaned it over a bit too far in the horseshoe until the engine case touched down and picked the tire up off the ground. For the record, aluminum has a significantly lower coef. of friction than rubber. Anyone got any cornering clearance for sale?

Good day to all.

Jeff Grant
09-23-2002, 05:07 PM
Guys... try not to get deterred. Brooks hit the nail on the head when he stated that some races have next to no incidents, yet others can be "more involved", if you will. Granted, I think most will agree that the majority of the races are not THIS busy with off-track excursions.

Don't let yesterday's incidents keep you away from what could be one of the best experience of your life. Of course, there is always the inherent risk, but if you pay attention and ride with your head on straight, the odds are totally in your favor.

I echo Steve's sentiments when I state you can come by the LSTD trailer and ask any question you may have. No, we're not the pros, but this is our first year of racing and I can't tell you how much I've learned from my race at Oak Hill in February.

Keep the faith gentlemen. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Jeff Grant
09-23-2002, 05:07 PM
Guys... try not to get deterred. Brooks hit the nail on the head when he stated that some races have next to no incidents, yet others can be "more involved", if you will. Granted, I think most will agree that the majority of the races are not THIS busy with off-track excursions.

Don't let yesterday's incidents keep you away from what could be one of the best experience of your life. Of course, there is always the inherent risk, but if you pay attention and ride with your head on straight, the odds are totally in your favor.

I echo Steve's sentiments when I state you can come by the LSTD trailer and ask any question you may have. No, we're not the pros, but this is our first year of racing and I can't tell you how much I've learned from my race at Oak Hill in February.

Keep the faith gentlemen. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

marcus mcbain
09-23-2002, 08:29 PM
Definitely "keep the faith". Yes, racing is dangerous, but when you add up all of the Thousands and Thousands of entries and correlate the percentage, it is a pretty safe hobby.

NOW, with that said, I think the main obstacle to a racers safety is the racer themselves. Not from a malicious intent perspective, but rather from testosterone induced euphoria that leads to fateful decisions. I think that the ego and attitude that make a racer successful also hinder their ability to use common sense.

I am laughing today because of one of the riders that got a "Suspension tune-up". I was totally PO'ed about this yesterday, but I think this is indicative of why it is hard to communicate with racers about important stuff. Anyway I set the sag and compression on a bone stock (suspension wise) two year old GSXR-600 for a first year racer. I did this on Monday at the LSTD and it pretty much rained, but the kid runs 2:18's in the rain on some almost new Michelin Rains I sold him for 75.00. I thought I was really doing him some favors as I was spending a lot of time talking to the guy and trying to be helpful. Anyway, I tell them that I watched the bike and it was tracking perfectly. On Saturday, I say hello and ask him how they are doing, they imply that I did something wrong to his bike and he is, "running slower than he ever has at TWS". Well, again, I watch him and remind the guys that it was a little cold Saturday morning and after watching the bike, everything looked perfect. Sunday, same drill again. I took a very small amount of spring out of the rear becuase I can tell if I don't do something these guys will take it upon themselves to start turning knobs and really screw the kid up. Well, Sunday morning rolls around and this time the guys are looking at me like a walking turd. So, I face the music and ask how it is going. Again, I get the "you are ruining our racing" look. So, again I watch the kid on the track and he is hauling *** (1:56's in the second cold Sunday practice with shagged tires and the bike was on rails). Again, I try to get them to hold out and NOT change anything. Well later, they come up to me and tell me he is running slow and flat lied and told me he is running 1:59's. I timed and knew they were lying. WHY? First race, the kid gets a Top 5 spot and ran a good clean race. Ran 1:54's every lap, again they tell me he is running dog slow. I talk to some of the racers and they are telling me this kid is running faster than he ever has and his bike was on rails. Next race, 1:53'S every lap. I am actually getting excited for the kid. I go the the pit and his crew gives me the same "you are ruining our weekend" look. Well, I think the kid is finally realizing that he is hauling ***, because I actually see a smile. Well the crew again tells me he his running slow. After doing all this for free, I finally ask, "What have I done to piss you off". They look at me and ask why I am asking that. I told them that I did not understand why they lied to me all morning about laptimes and his progress. The answer I got was nothing less than a punchline..."Well, it is hard to keep times and use the camcorder at the same time!" The rider in this story turned 1:52's on bone stock suspension. I talked to his peers and they were equally impressed with his performance. I thought he did an outstanding job of riding outside of everything else.

The main point of this story is if someone who has been racing 14+ years and has solid reputation for what he is doing, why would you try to so damn hard to piss in their ear when they are trying to help you and give you good information...FREE? I am still puzzled at what these folks thought, but 1 head scratcher out of 60 bikes is pretty good percentages.

Moral of the story, some people will try very hard to NOT let you help them...
Marcus

marcus mcbain
09-23-2002, 08:29 PM
Definitely "keep the faith". Yes, racing is dangerous, but when you add up all of the Thousands and Thousands of entries and correlate the percentage, it is a pretty safe hobby.

NOW, with that said, I think the main obstacle to a racers safety is the racer themselves. Not from a malicious intent perspective, but rather from testosterone induced euphoria that leads to fateful decisions. I think that the ego and attitude that make a racer successful also hinder their ability to use common sense.

I am laughing today because of one of the riders that got a "Suspension tune-up". I was totally PO'ed about this yesterday, but I think this is indicative of why it is hard to communicate with racers about important stuff. Anyway I set the sag and compression on a bone stock (suspension wise) two year old GSXR-600 for a first year racer. I did this on Monday at the LSTD and it pretty much rained, but the kid runs 2:18's in the rain on some almost new Michelin Rains I sold him for 75.00. I thought I was really doing him some favors as I was spending a lot of time talking to the guy and trying to be helpful. Anyway, I tell them that I watched the bike and it was tracking perfectly. On Saturday, I say hello and ask him how they are doing, they imply that I did something wrong to his bike and he is, "running slower than he ever has at TWS". Well, again, I watch him and remind the guys that it was a little cold Saturday morning and after watching the bike, everything looked perfect. Sunday, same drill again. I took a very small amount of spring out of the rear becuase I can tell if I don't do something these guys will take it upon themselves to start turning knobs and really screw the kid up. Well, Sunday morning rolls around and this time the guys are looking at me like a walking turd. So, I face the music and ask how it is going. Again, I get the "you are ruining our racing" look. So, again I watch the kid on the track and he is hauling *** (1:56's in the second cold Sunday practice with shagged tires and the bike was on rails). Again, I try to get them to hold out and NOT change anything. Well later, they come up to me and tell me he is running slow and flat lied and told me he is running 1:59's. I timed and knew they were lying. WHY? First race, the kid gets a Top 5 spot and ran a good clean race. Ran 1:54's every lap, again they tell me he is running dog slow. I talk to some of the racers and they are telling me this kid is running faster than he ever has and his bike was on rails. Next race, 1:53'S every lap. I am actually getting excited for the kid. I go the the pit and his crew gives me the same "you are ruining our weekend" look. Well, I think the kid is finally realizing that he is hauling ***, because I actually see a smile. Well the crew again tells me he his running slow. After doing all this for free, I finally ask, "What have I done to piss you off". They look at me and ask why I am asking that. I told them that I did not understand why they lied to me all morning about laptimes and his progress. The answer I got was nothing less than a punchline..."Well, it is hard to keep times and use the camcorder at the same time!" The rider in this story turned 1:52's on bone stock suspension. I talked to his peers and they were equally impressed with his performance. I thought he did an outstanding job of riding outside of everything else.

The main point of this story is if someone who has been racing 14+ years and has solid reputation for what he is doing, why would you try to so damn hard to piss in their ear when they are trying to help you and give you good information...FREE? I am still puzzled at what these folks thought, but 1 head scratcher out of 60 bikes is pretty good percentages.

Moral of the story, some people will try very hard to NOT let you help them...
Marcus

cedestech
09-23-2002, 10:07 PM
Stronger tech, yes.

Riders meeting, partial role call. If you are
the lucky recipiant to have your name randomly called and your not there, back of the grid.

Mentor program, absolutely. I'd have spent half
the money to be as slow as I am by now.
Seriously. I met a very nice guy corner
working Saterday (first time ever, highly recomend it) and he was jumping out of his
skin with excitement. He had only been street riding about 6 months and never even seen
a motorcycle race before. He is just the sort of
person who would respond and prosper from
such a program.

cedestech
09-23-2002, 10:07 PM
Stronger tech, yes.

Riders meeting, partial role call. If you are
the lucky recipiant to have your name randomly called and your not there, back of the grid.

Mentor program, absolutely. I'd have spent half
the money to be as slow as I am by now.
Seriously. I met a very nice guy corner
working Saterday (first time ever, highly recomend it) and he was jumping out of his
skin with excitement. He had only been street riding about 6 months and never even seen
a motorcycle race before. He is just the sort of
person who would respond and prosper from
such a program.

Jiveturky
09-23-2002, 10:10 PM
You have heard from at least two new guys above asking for a mentoring program. I just happen to be lucky, I have a few people here in God's country that have been racing for years. Although they have had a good laugh on me from time to time, they have been very helpful. If I would not have had a little instruction this whole racing thing would not be very fun. Something as simple as registration can cause a significant amount of anxiety. What classes, where do I go to register, how do I register, what is the proper bike prep, etc., etc. The first few races are filled with a multitude of emotions and above all a lot of stress. Anything we can do for the new guys and gals to limit their stress and anxiety the better off we will all be. The mentors do not have to be experts just someone with a little experience. In some respects the ametuers may be better because they may still be working through many of the same issues. A competant ametuer can see if a bike is unsafe or not, can help with choosing classes, help with bike prep, etc. And for the more technical stuff (suspension set up, or riding critique) the ametuer can point him to the nearest expert. Either way, every prov nov should be assigned a mentor. In most cases it will be a friend, most likely the one who talked him into this crazy sport. If not, then assign someone to him. This will not prevent all of the problems, but will sure help. If this guy with the bald street tires had some input on just what kind of risk he was taking I don't think he would have been out there. If they don't listen the first time then it is our responsibility make the race officials aware.

I plan on racing the endurance series next year on a GSXR 600 with 3 other guys. We are far from veteran racers but are willing to help.

BOD if you need to start a list of possible mentors feel free to put me on it. Again I am no expert and am still learning something everytime I come to the races, but I can help someone with the easy stuff.

Later, Eric

Jiveturky
09-23-2002, 10:10 PM
You have heard from at least two new guys above asking for a mentoring program. I just happen to be lucky, I have a few people here in God's country that have been racing for years. Although they have had a good laugh on me from time to time, they have been very helpful. If I would not have had a little instruction this whole racing thing would not be very fun. Something as simple as registration can cause a significant amount of anxiety. What classes, where do I go to register, how do I register, what is the proper bike prep, etc., etc. The first few races are filled with a multitude of emotions and above all a lot of stress. Anything we can do for the new guys and gals to limit their stress and anxiety the better off we will all be. The mentors do not have to be experts just someone with a little experience. In some respects the ametuers may be better because they may still be working through many of the same issues. A competant ametuer can see if a bike is unsafe or not, can help with choosing classes, help with bike prep, etc. And for the more technical stuff (suspension set up, or riding critique) the ametuer can point him to the nearest expert. Either way, every prov nov should be assigned a mentor. In most cases it will be a friend, most likely the one who talked him into this crazy sport. If not, then assign someone to him. This will not prevent all of the problems, but will sure help. If this guy with the bald street tires had some input on just what kind of risk he was taking I don't think he would have been out there. If they don't listen the first time then it is our responsibility make the race officials aware.

I plan on racing the endurance series next year on a GSXR 600 with 3 other guys. We are far from veteran racers but are willing to help.

BOD if you need to start a list of possible mentors feel free to put me on it. Again I am no expert and am still learning something everytime I come to the races, but I can help someone with the easy stuff.

Later, Eric

E. Templet
09-23-2002, 11:13 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by David Branyon #809:
Gene,
I don't believe I've met you, but respect you from your posts, but I raced very closely with Chris last time out at TWS, and was within view of him this time when he went down, and I didn't see anything that caused me concern. We were racing hard, but it was good clean hard racing.

Good day to all.</div></div>I worry about you guys and the club, and I am outspoken about it. I don't think it's necessary to run off the track or crash to improve your skills. Pushing the limits and taking chances falls neatly into that category. The bike is giving you constant feedback, you have to be able to process the information and act upon it. If you need to slow down to do so, then that is the proper plan of action.

As far as the club is concerned, I wouldn't want any CMRA race day to be referred to as a crash fest. That's not the message I want to send to prospective members or sponsors. A couple of people on this very board have expressed concern about becoming racers. No doubt, this weekends events have in part caused the concern.

Perhaps I am a bit **** about all this, but...I fly airplanes. You don't often get a second chance there.

E. Templet
09-23-2002, 11:13 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by David Branyon #809:
Gene,
I don't believe I've met you, but respect you from your posts, but I raced very closely with Chris last time out at TWS, and was within view of him this time when he went down, and I didn't see anything that caused me concern. We were racing hard, but it was good clean hard racing.

Good day to all.</div></div>I worry about you guys and the club, and I am outspoken about it. I don't think it's necessary to run off the track or crash to improve your skills. Pushing the limits and taking chances falls neatly into that category. The bike is giving you constant feedback, you have to be able to process the information and act upon it. If you need to slow down to do so, then that is the proper plan of action.

As far as the club is concerned, I wouldn't want any CMRA race day to be referred to as a crash fest. That's not the message I want to send to prospective members or sponsors. A couple of people on this very board have expressed concern about becoming racers. No doubt, this weekends events have in part caused the concern.

Perhaps I am a bit **** about all this, but...I fly airplanes. You don't often get a second chance there.

Mark Delano
09-24-2002, 01:12 AM
Moral of the story, some people will try very hard to NOT let you help them...
Marcus[/QB][/QUOTE]

this is for marcus
marcus i know this kid its me and now i am PO,ED i dont understand where you get off making these statements
for 1 i will always listen and take advice from anyone i am always wanting to learn something new
and if i thought you didnt know what you where doing i would have never brough my motorclye to you t o let you mess with it to start with
i came to you on monday because i needed help and yes it was raining it was my first time on the track in the rain and on rain tires so the changes we made i didnt know if they helped or not it was all new to me
but this weekend i was able to try it out in the dry and yes at first the bike felt funny to me we made some drastic changes to the bike i was use to the bike moving around all over the place and being soft haveing to fight the bike to go where i wanted it to go but the bike was actually doing want i wanted it to do with the changes i was never dissatified with your service nor your experience,and advice i was always ready to listen when you spoke and as i got more comfortable with the changes we made i got faster
i never once lied to you about any thing thats ridiculous
as for my crew i cant say wether they did or didnt i was not present went that conversation took place but i do know they are good people and only mean well
i think you have just made it out to be worst than it really was
i listen to people all weekend just hoping i might learn something more i respect everybody and what they have to say
i greatly appreciate everything you done for me this weekend and hope to spend more time with you and pete in the future to better my knowledge of suspension and racing in general

moral of my story is i will try very hard to let anybody help me

mark delano
#517 am /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

Mark Delano
09-24-2002, 01:12 AM
Moral of the story, some people will try very hard to NOT let you help them...
Marcus[/QB][/QUOTE]

this is for marcus
marcus i know this kid its me and now i am PO,ED i dont understand where you get off making these statements
for 1 i will always listen and take advice from anyone i am always wanting to learn something new
and if i thought you didnt know what you where doing i would have never brough my motorclye to you t o let you mess with it to start with
i came to you on monday because i needed help and yes it was raining it was my first time on the track in the rain and on rain tires so the changes we made i didnt know if they helped or not it was all new to me
but this weekend i was able to try it out in the dry and yes at first the bike felt funny to me we made some drastic changes to the bike i was use to the bike moving around all over the place and being soft haveing to fight the bike to go where i wanted it to go but the bike was actually doing want i wanted it to do with the changes i was never dissatified with your service nor your experience,and advice i was always ready to listen when you spoke and as i got more comfortable with the changes we made i got faster
i never once lied to you about any thing thats ridiculous
as for my crew i cant say wether they did or didnt i was not present went that conversation took place but i do know they are good people and only mean well
i think you have just made it out to be worst than it really was
i listen to people all weekend just hoping i might learn something more i respect everybody and what they have to say
i greatly appreciate everything you done for me this weekend and hope to spend more time with you and pete in the future to better my knowledge of suspension and racing in general

moral of my story is i will try very hard to let anybody help me

mark delano
#517 am /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

Brooks Gremmels
09-24-2002, 09:12 AM
We'll look into the idea of a formal mentoring program. But a few observations: asigning every new rider a mentor wouldn't work. We'd be hard pressed just to find enough experienced racers to do it, everyone isn't a good teacher, not everyone shows up at every event. Riders need to be pro-active in asking for help. (Two months ago, Craig Montgomery, John Orchard and I trailered our bikes to New Mexico to work with some new riders who asked for help). Even at a riding school, it is the students who ask for help with specific issues that get the attention. It is seldom those riders who are the ones demonstating a need for help out on the track. As riders sharing the same track at racing speeds, we all have an obligation to look out for each other. This means bringing observed safety issues of any kind to the attention attention of those in charge (Race Director, tech personel, BOD members, etc.). Don't wait until Monday to mention it on the mboard, let's geet it delt with.
Racing on a closed track is inherently safer than riding on the street. We have had weekends where the ambulance hasn't rolled once. Don't you imagine that it all equals out?
Brooks

Brooks Gremmels
09-24-2002, 09:12 AM
We'll look into the idea of a formal mentoring program. But a few observations: asigning every new rider a mentor wouldn't work. We'd be hard pressed just to find enough experienced racers to do it, everyone isn't a good teacher, not everyone shows up at every event. Riders need to be pro-active in asking for help. (Two months ago, Craig Montgomery, John Orchard and I trailered our bikes to New Mexico to work with some new riders who asked for help). Even at a riding school, it is the students who ask for help with specific issues that get the attention. It is seldom those riders who are the ones demonstating a need for help out on the track. As riders sharing the same track at racing speeds, we all have an obligation to look out for each other. This means bringing observed safety issues of any kind to the attention attention of those in charge (Race Director, tech personel, BOD members, etc.). Don't wait until Monday to mention it on the mboard, let's geet it delt with.
Racing on a closed track is inherently safer than riding on the street. We have had weekends where the ambulance hasn't rolled once. Don't you imagine that it all equals out?
Brooks

marcus mcbain
09-24-2002, 10:22 AM
Hey Mark,

Like I said, I am laughing about it now and was really impressed with your riding. We want to continue to help you.

Good Job.

See you at Cresson,
Marcus

marcus mcbain
09-24-2002, 10:22 AM
Hey Mark,

Like I said, I am laughing about it now and was really impressed with your riding. We want to continue to help you.

Good Job.

See you at Cresson,
Marcus

Louis Reinartz
09-24-2002, 11:10 AM
After some sleep and some further thought,it is funny how it all works out in the end. Brooks is right,some weekends the meat wagon sits and nothing happens,others well....just a bad day.
I feel that the races and weekend was a great event and as for the problems,crashes and other stuff,well thats racing.

Louis Reinartz
09-24-2002, 11:10 AM
After some sleep and some further thought,it is funny how it all works out in the end. Brooks is right,some weekends the meat wagon sits and nothing happens,others well....just a bad day.
I feel that the races and weekend was a great event and as for the problems,crashes and other stuff,well thats racing.

marcus mcbain
09-24-2002, 11:47 AM
Mentoring. There are several methods to mentoring. I would like to cover one of the ones I directed for RPM this year.

Basically, we took an open track day, and cut out a session for the 5-10 mentor students. It was both an instruction session and a BS session. I went over the basics of where to put your feet and how to weigh them on the pegs, countersteering, braking, etc. In short, it was an extremely successful program. I basically spent the day with these guys and they did great. Most dropped their lap times anywhere from 3-6 seconds a lap at NPR, but more importantly felt a lot more comfortable with riding.

I bring this up, because CMRA has a ton of experienced riders like Danny Dominguez (SP?), Scott Levine, Sam McDonald (I know he is busy with riders school), and many others that each could once a year make a track day and do a "mentor program". I think you could cycle 60-100 mentor students like this.

Marcus

marcus mcbain
09-24-2002, 11:47 AM
Mentoring. There are several methods to mentoring. I would like to cover one of the ones I directed for RPM this year.

Basically, we took an open track day, and cut out a session for the 5-10 mentor students. It was both an instruction session and a BS session. I went over the basics of where to put your feet and how to weigh them on the pegs, countersteering, braking, etc. In short, it was an extremely successful program. I basically spent the day with these guys and they did great. Most dropped their lap times anywhere from 3-6 seconds a lap at NPR, but more importantly felt a lot more comfortable with riding.

I bring this up, because CMRA has a ton of experienced riders like Danny Dominguez (SP?), Scott Levine, Sam McDonald (I know he is busy with riders school), and many others that each could once a year make a track day and do a "mentor program". I think you could cycle 60-100 mentor students like this.

Marcus

eric hagerty
09-24-2002, 12:28 PM
Marcus,
I am in need of a mentor....so I can quit being a mower :rolleyes:

eric hagerty
09-24-2002, 12:28 PM
Marcus,
I am in need of a mentor....so I can quit being a mower :rolleyes:

marcus mcbain
09-24-2002, 12:40 PM
Yeah, but then I would lose the John Deere sponsorship. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

marcus mcbain
09-24-2002, 12:40 PM
Yeah, but then I would lose the John Deere sponsorship. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Jonny 748
09-24-2002, 01:11 PM
Since the Scholarship thing went no where how about this...
I agree with Brooks that it would be difficult to maintain the program consistently. But the Mentor program could be run on as volunteer system such as cornerworking.
Experienced racers would sign-up ahead of time (ample enough to make sure a race is covered) and could then plan on being there early so as to not interfere with their race prep.
For their trouble they could get reduced or free race entry, or some other contingency. This money could come from the new Racers enrollement so that it is proportional to the numbers needed.
They would then help with walking riders through getting started, tech, registration, etc. They might also be available to run practice sessions with the provs.
The new guys would then have someone they already know who they may approach with future questions.

I have to say that I've been very fortunate to recieve help from anyone I've asked at the CMRA. But then again I've made it a habit of talking to strangers - sometimes even accepting candy - but not everyone is comfortable bothering someone else for what they may think is a stupid prov nov question.

Sorry I missed the races, sounds like I would have fit in perfectly.

Jonny

PS. If you see a guy with something sketchy about his bike - rat him out - before he takes you or your friends out.

Hey Smileyman,
Sorry to hear about the carnage. Hope you're feeling better and the bike's not too bad. Welcome to the Highside Club - How's the view up there?
Hope to see you at Cresson.

Jonny 748
09-24-2002, 01:11 PM
Since the Scholarship thing went no where how about this...
I agree with Brooks that it would be difficult to maintain the program consistently. But the Mentor program could be run on as volunteer system such as cornerworking.
Experienced racers would sign-up ahead of time (ample enough to make sure a race is covered) and could then plan on being there early so as to not interfere with their race prep.
For their trouble they could get reduced or free race entry, or some other contingency. This money could come from the new Racers enrollement so that it is proportional to the numbers needed.
They would then help with walking riders through getting started, tech, registration, etc. They might also be available to run practice sessions with the provs.
The new guys would then have someone they already know who they may approach with future questions.

I have to say that I've been very fortunate to recieve help from anyone I've asked at the CMRA. But then again I've made it a habit of talking to strangers - sometimes even accepting candy - but not everyone is comfortable bothering someone else for what they may think is a stupid prov nov question.

Sorry I missed the races, sounds like I would have fit in perfectly.

Jonny

PS. If you see a guy with something sketchy about his bike - rat him out - before he takes you or your friends out.

Hey Smileyman,
Sorry to hear about the carnage. Hope you're feeling better and the bike's not too bad. Welcome to the Highside Club - How's the view up there?
Hope to see you at Cresson.

shane carter
09-24-2002, 03:05 PM
I've been on both sides of the track. Advice is only good for those willing to listen. Breeno and the idiots preached to me a lot when I first got started. but I wouldn't listen. After god knows how many crashes and broken bones, I come back this season and actually pulled my head out of my azz and started listening to the vets. Man, whata a difference it makes. Some vets go the extra mile to offer advice, even if its not wanted. Some could give a chit less about talking to ya. For you new guys, if someone takes the time to talk to ya. At least listen to what they are saying. It may save you a meat wagon trip. I was having a horrible showing this wk.end. I was running about 10 seconds off my usual pace. This misfortune gave me the opportunity to watch a lot of prov novs running. 3 that come to mind right of hand was (1) the guy on the blue sv650 that went off in T6. Right in front of me. I was dodging him for a 1 1/2 laps before he finally bit it. (2) the big money RSV mille'. I pulled up beside this guy on my mille at the out gate and tapped his tank and gave him a thumbs up (for nice bike). I let him go out in front of me on the warmup lap and he was all wobly and out of control. I wanted to tell the guy to chill, but we were pulling up to the grid and there was no time. 2 laps later he was in the chainlink fence in T4. (3) the rc51 that motto jumped turn 7. same story. All these guys were riding way past the skill level. I duno of any way to prevent this. The guy on the sv, I got to talk to him afterwards. It took him getting his neck twisted like a bread wrapper, but I think he listened to me. The mentor program only works for those willing to listen. I do beleive that the veterans should take more effort in talking with the newbies. They really don't know what its all about. They get out there, ride fast as they can and kill themselves off before they have time to learn anything. My team has adopted 2 prov novs to date and I try to extend a helping hand to others whenever I can. Thats about all you can do, but it does help. just my .02

shane carter
09-24-2002, 03:05 PM
I've been on both sides of the track. Advice is only good for those willing to listen. Breeno and the idiots preached to me a lot when I first got started. but I wouldn't listen. After god knows how many crashes and broken bones, I come back this season and actually pulled my head out of my azz and started listening to the vets. Man, whata a difference it makes. Some vets go the extra mile to offer advice, even if its not wanted. Some could give a chit less about talking to ya. For you new guys, if someone takes the time to talk to ya. At least listen to what they are saying. It may save you a meat wagon trip. I was having a horrible showing this wk.end. I was running about 10 seconds off my usual pace. This misfortune gave me the opportunity to watch a lot of prov novs running. 3 that come to mind right of hand was (1) the guy on the blue sv650 that went off in T6. Right in front of me. I was dodging him for a 1 1/2 laps before he finally bit it. (2) the big money RSV mille'. I pulled up beside this guy on my mille at the out gate and tapped his tank and gave him a thumbs up (for nice bike). I let him go out in front of me on the warmup lap and he was all wobly and out of control. I wanted to tell the guy to chill, but we were pulling up to the grid and there was no time. 2 laps later he was in the chainlink fence in T4. (3) the rc51 that motto jumped turn 7. same story. All these guys were riding way past the skill level. I duno of any way to prevent this. The guy on the sv, I got to talk to him afterwards. It took him getting his neck twisted like a bread wrapper, but I think he listened to me. The mentor program only works for those willing to listen. I do beleive that the veterans should take more effort in talking with the newbies. They really don't know what its all about. They get out there, ride fast as they can and kill themselves off before they have time to learn anything. My team has adopted 2 prov novs to date and I try to extend a helping hand to others whenever I can. Thats about all you can do, but it does help. just my .02

E. Templet
09-24-2002, 07:37 PM
Great Job Shane, I'm glad your pulled your head out /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif anyone that takes the time to help others is an asset to the club. I have never been turned down when I asked for advice and I ask quite a bit. So... yes the CMRA is a great club, because of people like yourself.

I have been thinking along the same mentoring lines as many racers in the club and I believe we can do some good things by establishing "CMRA Representatives" or "Information Officers" if you will. No big training process would be necessary, just some guidelines concerning what image we want to portray to prospective racers and spectators, along with dispensing advice to racers. This could go as far as we wished it to go. Simple or complicated. Me, I like simple.

Give the CMRA Representatives an Armband to wear for recognition. Acknowledge them VIA the PA system and let them be ambassadors of the club. This could be done during a normal race day, in our spare time. The Rep could also do allot to help contol the paddock (pit speeds, wheelies, cars, and other areas of concern). I know we all see dangerous situations in the paddock area and most of us do little about it. I, for certain, am guilty of this. Not being a recognized authroity figure leaves ourselves open to all sorts of abuse. This would make it easier to deal with small infractions.

Anyway, this is just a suggestion, one that could go a long way promoting the club in a positive way, making for a safer paddock area, a more informed group of spectators, and utilize many of the special talents we have amoung the CMRA members.

I remember one of our members offering to hold a fire training class. I think this would be great! Many members have so much to offer of ourselves and experiences, if we could just tap into that...the sky would be the limit.

I know, I know, the track officals and BOD have enought to do already. I think this would help alleviate that also...after it got going.

Any thoughts?

E. Templet
09-24-2002, 07:37 PM
Great Job Shane, I'm glad your pulled your head out /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif anyone that takes the time to help others is an asset to the club. I have never been turned down when I asked for advice and I ask quite a bit. So... yes the CMRA is a great club, because of people like yourself.

I have been thinking along the same mentoring lines as many racers in the club and I believe we can do some good things by establishing "CMRA Representatives" or "Information Officers" if you will. No big training process would be necessary, just some guidelines concerning what image we want to portray to prospective racers and spectators, along with dispensing advice to racers. This could go as far as we wished it to go. Simple or complicated. Me, I like simple.

Give the CMRA Representatives an Armband to wear for recognition. Acknowledge them VIA the PA system and let them be ambassadors of the club. This could be done during a normal race day, in our spare time. The Rep could also do allot to help contol the paddock (pit speeds, wheelies, cars, and other areas of concern). I know we all see dangerous situations in the paddock area and most of us do little about it. I, for certain, am guilty of this. Not being a recognized authroity figure leaves ourselves open to all sorts of abuse. This would make it easier to deal with small infractions.

Anyway, this is just a suggestion, one that could go a long way promoting the club in a positive way, making for a safer paddock area, a more informed group of spectators, and utilize many of the special talents we have amoung the CMRA members.

I remember one of our members offering to hold a fire training class. I think this would be great! Many members have so much to offer of ourselves and experiences, if we could just tap into that...the sky would be the limit.

I know, I know, the track officals and BOD have enought to do already. I think this would help alleviate that also...after it got going.

Any thoughts?

E. Templet
09-24-2002, 10:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Brooks Gremmels:
We have had weekends where the ambulance hasn't rolled once. Don't you imagine that it all equals out?
Brooks</div></div>I agree Brooks, we do have a safe club. That said, I believe we can do better.

My concern about the rash of crashes this weekend is the fact that for every accident, there are 10 near misses and 100 incidents. So says the Safety Pyramid. This my work a little differently in morotcycle racing, but the big picture is this; there were many many incidents this weekend. Many were noticed, many were not, but they continued to mount throughout the day.

If we can eliminate some of the incidents we can eliminate many of the accidents. It's an effort I believe is worthwhile. It all starts with each of us. Let's just give a little exta thought to safety, at all times. These are our friends racing with us, let's go home together and in one piece.

E. Templet
09-24-2002, 10:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Brooks Gremmels:
We have had weekends where the ambulance hasn't rolled once. Don't you imagine that it all equals out?
Brooks</div></div>I agree Brooks, we do have a safe club. That said, I believe we can do better.

My concern about the rash of crashes this weekend is the fact that for every accident, there are 10 near misses and 100 incidents. So says the Safety Pyramid. This my work a little differently in morotcycle racing, but the big picture is this; there were many many incidents this weekend. Many were noticed, many were not, but they continued to mount throughout the day.

If we can eliminate some of the incidents we can eliminate many of the accidents. It's an effort I believe is worthwhile. It all starts with each of us. Let's just give a little exta thought to safety, at all times. These are our friends racing with us, let's go home together and in one piece.

Blake
09-25-2002, 02:27 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by David Branyon #809:
Anyone got any cornering clearance for sale?</div></div>Try some stiffer springs?

Blake
09-25-2002, 02:27 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by David Branyon #809:
Anyone got any cornering clearance for sale?</div></div>Try some stiffer springs?