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Frank Newman
12-30-2003, 06:01 PM
May an SV650 in run full bodywork? See my observation a couple of months age and Brooks' spirited reply. The latest street SV's have full bodywork from the factory I think.

Frank Newman
12-30-2003, 06:01 PM
May an SV650 in run full bodywork? See my observation a couple of months age and Brooks' spirited reply. The latest street SV's have full bodywork from the factory I think.

KELLY DAVIS
12-31-2003, 10:15 AM
Thats a good question. I would think that there would be no plastic in SS,& plastic in SB, that seems fair.

KELLY DAVIS
12-31-2003, 10:15 AM
Thats a good question. I would think that there would be no plastic in SS,& plastic in SB, that seems fair.

Bryan Norton
12-31-2003, 11:01 AM
SVS has full bodywork, SV does not...So requiring full SS rules for the SV would give an advantage to those who bought SV650S.

WERA is moving to a truly SS rule for 2004(from what I've gathered so far) - if the machine didn't come with bodywork you can not add it. (also WERA is very strick regarding race bodywork, it must be an EXACT replica, no Sharkskinz R1 style on SV, etc)

CCS has no bodywork restrictions whatsoever.

However, I see don't see a big issue with allowing SVS style bodywork on the SV.

(You can't say no bodywork in SS at all, because the SVS comes with bodywork)


I'll need Walter's agreement on this one as well.
What I am proposing is that all SV can use SVS replica bodywork for superstock.

As far as using sharkskinz style or other style, I left the rule ambiguous for 2004, stating only that the bodywork must 'resemble' stock bodywork.

The spirit of superstock is equalized machines as much as possible, allowing different bodywork breaks from that spirit, however I don't want to alienate people the first year of new rules structure.

Bryan Norton
12-31-2003, 11:01 AM
SVS has full bodywork, SV does not...So requiring full SS rules for the SV would give an advantage to those who bought SV650S.

WERA is moving to a truly SS rule for 2004(from what I've gathered so far) - if the machine didn't come with bodywork you can not add it. (also WERA is very strick regarding race bodywork, it must be an EXACT replica, no Sharkskinz R1 style on SV, etc)

CCS has no bodywork restrictions whatsoever.

However, I see don't see a big issue with allowing SVS style bodywork on the SV.

(You can't say no bodywork in SS at all, because the SVS comes with bodywork)


I'll need Walter's agreement on this one as well.
What I am proposing is that all SV can use SVS replica bodywork for superstock.

As far as using sharkskinz style or other style, I left the rule ambiguous for 2004, stating only that the bodywork must 'resemble' stock bodywork.

The spirit of superstock is equalized machines as much as possible, allowing different bodywork breaks from that spirit, however I don't want to alienate people the first year of new rules structure.

Christopher Corder
12-31-2003, 11:26 AM
so will my 99 with Beasley upper, catch pan, and tail section be legal or not?

Christopher Corder
12-31-2003, 11:26 AM
so will my 99 with Beasley upper, catch pan, and tail section be legal or not?

Frank Newman
12-31-2003, 12:07 PM
I'll be specific too. Will my 2000 SV with full Cheetah bodywork (as run last year in Supersport) be legal for Superstock? One note - if there is no bodywork, there will be either no space or very restricted space (gas tank only because tail will be filled up with numbers)for sponsor decals required for contingencies.

Frank Newman
12-31-2003, 12:07 PM
I'll be specific too. Will my 2000 SV with full Cheetah bodywork (as run last year in Supersport) be legal for Superstock? One note - if there is no bodywork, there will be either no space or very restricted space (gas tank only because tail will be filled up with numbers)for sponsor decals required for contingencies.

CYCLE 1
12-31-2003, 01:54 PM
As far as I know we have never enforced any body work rule. I have seen sv's with everything from
748 to aprilla bodywork we should not have any
bodywork rules as long as we are required to run oil catching lowers it really has no effect on performance at the tracks we race,actually you
will have advantage running just a upper and belly pan, in every test I have seen bikes will
actually have better top end without lowers.
Plus crash damage is minimalized :p

CYCLE 1
12-31-2003, 01:54 PM
As far as I know we have never enforced any body work rule. I have seen sv's with everything from
748 to aprilla bodywork we should not have any
bodywork rules as long as we are required to run oil catching lowers it really has no effect on performance at the tracks we race,actually you
will have advantage running just a upper and belly pan, in every test I have seen bikes will
actually have better top end without lowers.
Plus crash damage is minimalized :p

Walter Walker
01-04-2004, 09:19 PM
My first thought is to agree with Bryan on this one. But I know that there are a lot of SVs out there with full bodywork that are otherwise SS legal so I need to give this some thought. "PLEASE STAND BY"

Walter Walker
01-04-2004, 09:19 PM
My first thought is to agree with Bryan on this one. But I know that there are a lot of SVs out there with full bodywork that are otherwise SS legal so I need to give this some thought. "PLEASE STAND BY"

KELLY DAVIS
01-04-2004, 10:52 PM
The SVS comes with upper plastic and a small lower, simular to a catch pan. The SV comes with none of this, so allow all the SV'S in SUPERSTOCK class to have SVS style plastic.

For SUPERBIKE SV's allow any style of plastic.

MY TWO CENTS

KELLY DAVIS
01-04-2004, 10:52 PM
The SVS comes with upper plastic and a small lower, simular to a catch pan. The SV comes with none of this, so allow all the SV'S in SUPERSTOCK class to have SVS style plastic.

For SUPERBIKE SV's allow any style of plastic.

MY TWO CENTS

Bryan Norton
01-05-2004, 10:42 AM
Walter - I agree with Kelly, as I think this would be as close to 'superstock' as we should be. However - much of the SV full bodywork is NOT SVS type. The sharksinz is based more on R1 styling.

However, as you state it would knock a lot of existing SVs out of superstock...

Can we contact Suzuki to find out how they feel? Since Superstock is the cash payout class, it is important to get their take on it.

Walter - you can call me or email me directly...as we need to come to a consensus very quickly.

Bryan Norton
01-05-2004, 10:42 AM
Walter - I agree with Kelly, as I think this would be as close to 'superstock' as we should be. However - much of the SV full bodywork is NOT SVS type. The sharksinz is based more on R1 styling.

However, as you state it would knock a lot of existing SVs out of superstock...

Can we contact Suzuki to find out how they feel? Since Superstock is the cash payout class, it is important to get their take on it.

Walter - you can call me or email me directly...as we need to come to a consensus very quickly.

Frank Newman
01-05-2004, 02:54 PM
I hope that if the SV's have to go through the "identical" requirement, everyone else will too. If the decision is to allow only an upper and catch pan that look like the SVS, then, I would like a referral to a company that makes bodywork that will comply.

Frank Newman
01-05-2004, 02:54 PM
I hope that if the SV's have to go through the "identical" requirement, everyone else will too. If the decision is to allow only an upper and catch pan that look like the SVS, then, I would like a referral to a company that makes bodywork that will comply.

waytooslow
01-05-2004, 03:44 PM
You can get SVS lowers from the factory as an option... just FYI. Actual Suzuki parts. Color matched

I would think since factory parts are avaiable... running a similar aftermarket set makes sense.

The SVS, does not however come with any lower at all, in stock form. Not sure what the "catch pan" that Kelly is refering to is...

Scott

waytooslow
01-05-2004, 03:44 PM
You can get SVS lowers from the factory as an option... just FYI. Actual Suzuki parts. Color matched

I would think since factory parts are avaiable... running a similar aftermarket set makes sense.

The SVS, does not however come with any lower at all, in stock form. Not sure what the "catch pan" that Kelly is refering to is...

Scott

Christopher Corder
01-05-2004, 03:58 PM
Like you said, we need to know asap.

I just hope my bike that has been legal in CMRA since 99 stays that way:

http://www.msucycle.com/~sigs/upload/files/DSCF00~2.jpg

Christopher Corder
01-05-2004, 03:58 PM
Like you said, we need to know asap.

I just hope my bike that has been legal in CMRA since 99 stays that way:

http://www.msucycle.com/~sigs/upload/files/DSCF00~2.jpg

CYCLE 1
01-05-2004, 05:35 PM
http://www.cycle1.net/sv.htm
I have mine as close as you can get to looking like a stock svs the fairing @belly pan are items we have produced for us. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

CYCLE 1
01-05-2004, 05:35 PM
http://www.cycle1.net/sv.htm
I have mine as close as you can get to looking like a stock svs the fairing @belly pan are items we have produced for us. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

KELLY DAVIS
01-06-2004, 01:07 AM
I thought the SVS came with a small lower, my bad.

KELLY DAVIS
01-06-2004, 01:07 AM
I thought the SVS came with a small lower, my bad.

Walter Walker
01-06-2004, 09:04 AM
I will try to speek with someone at the big "s" today and get their feelings on this. Keep in mind, just because it was legal in the past dosen't make it legal now. Bryan I will let you what I find out.

Walter Walker
01-06-2004, 09:04 AM
I will try to speek with someone at the big "s" today and get their feelings on this. Keep in mind, just because it was legal in the past dosen't make it legal now. Bryan I will let you what I find out.

Christopher Corder
01-06-2004, 09:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Keep in mind, just because it was legal in the past dosen't make it legal now. </div></div>I am aware that the rules can change from season to season. At my count there is 42 days until the season opens. I just need to know if I have to buy new bodywork and make it fit because the clock is ticking.

Christopher Corder
01-06-2004, 09:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Keep in mind, just because it was legal in the past dosen't make it legal now. </div></div>I am aware that the rules can change from season to season. At my count there is 42 days until the season opens. I just need to know if I have to buy new bodywork and make it fit because the clock is ticking.

Rich Desmond
01-06-2004, 10:18 AM
FWIW, both CCS and WERA allow any bodywork on the SV.

Rich Desmond
01-06-2004, 10:18 AM
FWIW, both CCS and WERA allow any bodywork on the SV.

Bryan Norton
01-06-2004, 11:28 AM
No Rich, actually that won't be true for 2004 the way I'm reading it -


Supserstock in WERA means EXACT replica bodywork. They were pretty lax on the SV in the past but it looks like 2004 will be pretty strict. Exact replica tails for sure, and most likely EXACT replica bodywork, although I think you could mount SVS onto an SV.

From Sean - "Short story, LWT will go 100% SS Spec for the SV's. "
All - no slicks in ANY SS spec class. They have been PI's for certain machines but that's it. Overall it will be the same as all the normal SS classes - no slicks. Again, NO SLICKS!!!!!!!

No SV in D Super at all

...And I'm going to instruct our tech guys to make sure they are on at the end of any SS spec race for SV's and DQ those riders with illegal subframes. That should take care of the problem within a couple of races.

I am curious though, why is it that the SV riders are having huge problems figuring out something that ALL of the 600/750/1000 riders can understand?

I will contact Sean, and see if someone can get ahold of suzuki...I think we could live with 'any' bodywork on SV, but those who will also run WERA will need to read their rulebook very closely.

Bryan Norton
01-06-2004, 11:28 AM
No Rich, actually that won't be true for 2004 the way I'm reading it -


Supserstock in WERA means EXACT replica bodywork. They were pretty lax on the SV in the past but it looks like 2004 will be pretty strict. Exact replica tails for sure, and most likely EXACT replica bodywork, although I think you could mount SVS onto an SV.

From Sean - "Short story, LWT will go 100% SS Spec for the SV's. "
All - no slicks in ANY SS spec class. They have been PI's for certain machines but that's it. Overall it will be the same as all the normal SS classes - no slicks. Again, NO SLICKS!!!!!!!

No SV in D Super at all

...And I'm going to instruct our tech guys to make sure they are on at the end of any SS spec race for SV's and DQ those riders with illegal subframes. That should take care of the problem within a couple of races.

I am curious though, why is it that the SV riders are having huge problems figuring out something that ALL of the 600/750/1000 riders can understand?

I will contact Sean, and see if someone can get ahold of suzuki...I think we could live with 'any' bodywork on SV, but those who will also run WERA will need to read their rulebook very closely.

Rich Desmond
01-06-2004, 01:09 PM
Hmmm, I thought from discussions on the WERA board that the bodywork rule on SS SVs was going to remain the same. The original rational was that since the SV had either no or minimal bodywork that allowing anything would make complying with the belly pan rule easier. That logic still makes sense to me, especially for the 99-02 models.

Rich Desmond
01-06-2004, 01:09 PM
Hmmm, I thought from discussions on the WERA board that the bodywork rule on SS SVs was going to remain the same. The original rational was that since the SV had either no or minimal bodywork that allowing anything would make complying with the belly pan rule easier. That logic still makes sense to me, especially for the 99-02 models.

Frank Newman
01-06-2004, 04:32 PM
Scott Millspaugh's comment about lowers being available from Suzuki caused me to go visit a dealer. Indeed, from the factory you can get a combination of upper and lower that results in a full fairing. Ask to see their catalog and you will find it. The salesman did not know.

Frank Newman
01-06-2004, 04:32 PM
Scott Millspaugh's comment about lowers being available from Suzuki caused me to go visit a dealer. Indeed, from the factory you can get a combination of upper and lower that results in a full fairing. Ask to see their catalog and you will find it. The salesman did not know.

waytooslow
01-06-2004, 11:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Frank Newman:
Scott Millspaugh's comment about lowers being available from Suzuki caused me to go visit a dealer. Indeed, from the factory you can get a combination of upper and lower that results in a full fairing. Ask to see their catalog and you will find it. The salesman did not know. </div></div>Vikki (my significant other) has a 03 sv650s. So we have been looking around a lot for accessories (some gals love to accessorize /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif )
see: svs lowers (http://www.andrettipowersports.com/viewproduct.asp?product=40667)

I will be interested in what the BoD rules on this. Best of luck, Frank.

Scott

waytooslow
01-06-2004, 11:35 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Frank Newman:
Scott Millspaugh's comment about lowers being available from Suzuki caused me to go visit a dealer. Indeed, from the factory you can get a combination of upper and lower that results in a full fairing. Ask to see their catalog and you will find it. The salesman did not know. </div></div>Vikki (my significant other) has a 03 sv650s. So we have been looking around a lot for accessories (some gals love to accessorize /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif )
see: svs lowers (http://www.andrettipowersports.com/viewproduct.asp?product=40667)

I will be interested in what the BoD rules on this. Best of luck, Frank.

Scott

Eric Kelcher
01-08-2004, 11:53 AM
Bryan from WERA rulebook (like what they say really makes any difference to CMRA but it was quoted by you)

*There are no bodywork limits in LWT

Eric Kelcher
01-08-2004, 11:53 AM
Bryan from WERA rulebook (like what they say really makes any difference to CMRA but it was quoted by you)

*There are no bodywork limits in LWT

Bryan Norton
01-08-2004, 01:20 PM
Actually Eric that is from 2003 i think, for 2004 there is a new class called LWT Superstock. My quotes were NOT from the rulebook, but from Sean's thread on the WERA BBS on the new proposed changes for 2004.

For 2004 WERA is moving the SV out of D superbike(with superstock trim requirements) and creating a new Lightweight Twins Superstock class. No slicks will be allowed in that class either.


--------------------
However, We have finally received confirmation and ANY bodywork will be allowed on SV and SVS 650.
--------------------

What WERA runs DOES make a difference. Yes we can and do have a unique rulebook, but we are trying to balance our rulebook between the CCS and WERA rulebooks so that our racers are free to compete in as many events nationwide as possible. If we were to allow any bodywork, and WERA decides that the new class will be 100% superstock, then many of our riders will not be able to aprticipate in that class, which happens to be the one that Suzuki is paying in in WERA.

Superstock was one of the changes we really had to consider for 2004, as CCS and WERA are polar opposite. CCS allows ANY bodywork on any machine in superstock. WERA requires EXACT replica (No humps in the tail section etc). Since I know that many racers already had non-compliant WERA bodywork, I had to make the statement a little ambiguous ( "Bodywork must resemble stock") for 2004. I expect to tighten this up a bit next year. I believe superstock machines should be close to factory looks, so that spectators and other racers can recognize them. (Doesn't or didn't Yamaha even require stock paint recently?)

The SV was harder to deal with as a major change in the design gives advantage to the new machines, and the base model doesn't come with any bodywork. We decided that superstock rules will remain intact (no additional mods can be done with older SVs), but bodywork will remain like CCS rules.

We aren't mimicking WERAs actions, but trying to build a rules structure that allows our racers to compete as much as possible without major changes to their machines which would put them at disadvantage in another organization. It's not a perfect world, and I know we will make changes next year, but we're off and running in 2004 !

Bryan Norton
01-08-2004, 01:20 PM
Actually Eric that is from 2003 i think, for 2004 there is a new class called LWT Superstock. My quotes were NOT from the rulebook, but from Sean's thread on the WERA BBS on the new proposed changes for 2004.

For 2004 WERA is moving the SV out of D superbike(with superstock trim requirements) and creating a new Lightweight Twins Superstock class. No slicks will be allowed in that class either.


--------------------
However, We have finally received confirmation and ANY bodywork will be allowed on SV and SVS 650.
--------------------

What WERA runs DOES make a difference. Yes we can and do have a unique rulebook, but we are trying to balance our rulebook between the CCS and WERA rulebooks so that our racers are free to compete in as many events nationwide as possible. If we were to allow any bodywork, and WERA decides that the new class will be 100% superstock, then many of our riders will not be able to aprticipate in that class, which happens to be the one that Suzuki is paying in in WERA.

Superstock was one of the changes we really had to consider for 2004, as CCS and WERA are polar opposite. CCS allows ANY bodywork on any machine in superstock. WERA requires EXACT replica (No humps in the tail section etc). Since I know that many racers already had non-compliant WERA bodywork, I had to make the statement a little ambiguous ( "Bodywork must resemble stock") for 2004. I expect to tighten this up a bit next year. I believe superstock machines should be close to factory looks, so that spectators and other racers can recognize them. (Doesn't or didn't Yamaha even require stock paint recently?)

The SV was harder to deal with as a major change in the design gives advantage to the new machines, and the base model doesn't come with any bodywork. We decided that superstock rules will remain intact (no additional mods can be done with older SVs), but bodywork will remain like CCS rules.

We aren't mimicking WERAs actions, but trying to build a rules structure that allows our racers to compete as much as possible without major changes to their machines which would put them at disadvantage in another organization. It's not a perfect world, and I know we will make changes next year, but we're off and running in 2004 !

Christopher Corder
01-08-2004, 01:33 PM
That is great news Bryan. Thanks for getting this resolved.

Now, can you please make fuel injection on SV's illegal? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Christopher Corder
01-08-2004, 01:33 PM
That is great news Bryan. Thanks for getting this resolved.

Now, can you please make fuel injection on SV's illegal? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif