PDA

View Full Version : Junior Expert class



Ty Howard
10-28-2004, 03:04 PM
I went up to Loudon in 1997. They had a Junior class. After the novice moved up he had to first ride junior before becoming expert. The idea seem to work good. Loudon has the largest club in the U.S. This class helps riders gain confidence before moving to expert.

I would like to propose a similar class for the CMRA. For example:
Novice riders scoring between .500 and .700 the year before can ride the junior class.
Experts that have never finished in the top 8 can ride the class. This would not be a championship class, only an experience enhancing class. A rider can only win the class 3 times before being bumped up to expert. Points would be counted but only to determine who can't ride the class anymore.
This class would be a 750 and under class. The A and B expert classes are pretty tough classes. This would give rookies a chance to shine and gain confidence without having to battle with the experienced experts. They would riding against similar ability riders.
This could be the needed class to help the CMRA continue to grow and encourage rookie experts to stick around for a few more seasons.

Ridesmart and Ty Howard Racing School were looking for a class to sponsor. This would be an ideal class for that. If that was the case these guys would be racing for purse money. I think Bill Syfan could probably pick up some contingency money also.

Ty Howard
10-28-2004, 03:04 PM
I went up to Loudon in 1997. They had a Junior class. After the novice moved up he had to first ride junior before becoming expert. The idea seem to work good. Loudon has the largest club in the U.S. This class helps riders gain confidence before moving to expert.

I would like to propose a similar class for the CMRA. For example:
Novice riders scoring between .500 and .700 the year before can ride the junior class.
Experts that have never finished in the top 8 can ride the class. This would not be a championship class, only an experience enhancing class. A rider can only win the class 3 times before being bumped up to expert. Points would be counted but only to determine who can't ride the class anymore.
This class would be a 750 and under class. The A and B expert classes are pretty tough classes. This would give rookies a chance to shine and gain confidence without having to battle with the experienced experts. They would riding against similar ability riders.
This could be the needed class to help the CMRA continue to grow and encourage rookie experts to stick around for a few more seasons.

Ridesmart and Ty Howard Racing School were looking for a class to sponsor. This would be an ideal class for that. If that was the case these guys would be racing for purse money. I think Bill Syfan could probably pick up some contingency money also.

Steve Breen
10-28-2004, 03:51 PM
Ty, this is something I've been pondering a while now, and brought this up several years ago as a way to retain first year experts.

I've been following how Loudon (LRRS, a CCS affiliate) handles this, and recently they are considering a change to their current structure due to some issues they found in living with the Jr EX concept.

The details to that are here:

http://www.lrrsracing.com/rider_reclassification.htm

Basically, it breaks down into three classes:
Novice
Amateur
Expert

Amateurs can win championships and earn contingency, similar to our current Novices, but you have to spend some time racing as a Novice to advance to the Amateur class.

The way I read the spirit of this, you get some time to get used to everything in the Novice class, and then advance to the Amateur class to race for contingency and make a run at some championships, if so inclined. After that, advancing to Expert status would take a bit of work.

This certainly raises plenty of questions, too, but it's a very interesting notion and worthy of debate I think.

Steve Breen
10-28-2004, 03:51 PM
Ty, this is something I've been pondering a while now, and brought this up several years ago as a way to retain first year experts.

I've been following how Loudon (LRRS, a CCS affiliate) handles this, and recently they are considering a change to their current structure due to some issues they found in living with the Jr EX concept.

The details to that are here:

http://www.lrrsracing.com/rider_reclassification.htm

Basically, it breaks down into three classes:
Novice
Amateur
Expert

Amateurs can win championships and earn contingency, similar to our current Novices, but you have to spend some time racing as a Novice to advance to the Amateur class.

The way I read the spirit of this, you get some time to get used to everything in the Novice class, and then advance to the Amateur class to race for contingency and make a run at some championships, if so inclined. After that, advancing to Expert status would take a bit of work.

This certainly raises plenty of questions, too, but it's a very interesting notion and worthy of debate I think.

JesseJohnson
10-28-2004, 04:10 PM
We almost did it a couple of years ago. There are many headaches associated with it, including administrative and scoring.

The biggest downfall I see is it dilluting what has become a small expert 600cc+ field. This will make it harder for contingencies to pay down when you only have 6-8 riders in an average grid. We need larger expert grids to make the contingencies more attractive to the sponsors.

NOTE: I'm not talking about club purses, strictly manufacturer contingencies.

J

JesseJohnson
10-28-2004, 04:10 PM
We almost did it a couple of years ago. There are many headaches associated with it, including administrative and scoring.

The biggest downfall I see is it dilluting what has become a small expert 600cc+ field. This will make it harder for contingencies to pay down when you only have 6-8 riders in an average grid. We need larger expert grids to make the contingencies more attractive to the sponsors.

NOTE: I'm not talking about club purses, strictly manufacturer contingencies.

J

John Orchard
10-28-2004, 04:12 PM
Very cool to see some of these ideas being kicked around. Keeping 'new' racers interested in racing has to be a key goal - it's sort of a lifeline to keeping the club strong.

Maybe a version of a JR class will help guys manage their expectations a bit as they learn their race craft, become more competitive and move up through the club ranks a bit.

Like Ty said in his other post, the new racers have to stick around long enough to pay a few dues...get guys to do that, and they'll get faster and stick around on their own. That'd be a big win for the club.

John Orchard
10-28-2004, 04:12 PM
Very cool to see some of these ideas being kicked around. Keeping 'new' racers interested in racing has to be a key goal - it's sort of a lifeline to keeping the club strong.

Maybe a version of a JR class will help guys manage their expectations a bit as they learn their race craft, become more competitive and move up through the club ranks a bit.

Like Ty said in his other post, the new racers have to stick around long enough to pay a few dues...get guys to do that, and they'll get faster and stick around on their own. That'd be a big win for the club.

Ty Howard
10-28-2004, 04:30 PM
My thinking was it is just one class for people that qualify. These riders would still ride in their expert or novice races also. It would just give them a race that they didn't have to race against the fast experts. They would also have a chance to make a little money and contingency. The riders in the race are probably not fast enough to win money in the expert races.
This would not be a classification just a race. These riders could still ride in novices races or experts races.

Basically the fast novices racing against the less experienced experts. A boost in confidence for both.

The Prov Nov race is very similar. These guys that win the Prov Nov race are so happy and brag to all their friends. Then the same day they ride the novice race and get 15th. Thats not much to talk about but the first in the Prov Nov race sure was.

The junior race would work the same way. They won the junior race and some money but got 11th in c superstock. That win would do so much for their confidence. The 11th place finish wouldn't bother them a bit.

Its a way for riders to get through that shock of going expert and realize they do have the speed to race with the experts. Just what they need to be CMRA lifers.

Ty Howard
10-28-2004, 04:30 PM
My thinking was it is just one class for people that qualify. These riders would still ride in their expert or novice races also. It would just give them a race that they didn't have to race against the fast experts. They would also have a chance to make a little money and contingency. The riders in the race are probably not fast enough to win money in the expert races.
This would not be a classification just a race. These riders could still ride in novices races or experts races.

Basically the fast novices racing against the less experienced experts. A boost in confidence for both.

The Prov Nov race is very similar. These guys that win the Prov Nov race are so happy and brag to all their friends. Then the same day they ride the novice race and get 15th. Thats not much to talk about but the first in the Prov Nov race sure was.

The junior race would work the same way. They won the junior race and some money but got 11th in c superstock. That win would do so much for their confidence. The 11th place finish wouldn't bother them a bit.

Its a way for riders to get through that shock of going expert and realize they do have the speed to race with the experts. Just what they need to be CMRA lifers.

Ty Howard
10-28-2004, 04:37 PM
Something like this will have a trickle down effect. The first year may be nuetral but every year after we will have more experts sticking around. The expert classes will begin to grow. No telling how many Moto GP champions have quit racing because they were intimidated by racing their first year of expert or wanted better results right of the bat.

Ty Howard
10-28-2004, 04:37 PM
Something like this will have a trickle down effect. The first year may be nuetral but every year after we will have more experts sticking around. The expert classes will begin to grow. No telling how many Moto GP champions have quit racing because they were intimidated by racing their first year of expert or wanted better results right of the bat.

Justin Molet
10-28-2004, 06:31 PM
i just started racing and this seems like it would be something to look forward to. there is such a big range of skill in novice and expert that i'm sure it would make for some good racing. i bet there are a lot of people like me that started racing late in life and just want to go out and have fun. getting trampled by racers with lots of experience and money can really put a damper on that.

Justin Molet
10-28-2004, 06:31 PM
i just started racing and this seems like it would be something to look forward to. there is such a big range of skill in novice and expert that i'm sure it would make for some good racing. i bet there are a lot of people like me that started racing late in life and just want to go out and have fun. getting trampled by racers with lots of experience and money can really put a damper on that.

darick
10-28-2004, 06:43 PM
While it is an interesting idea to ponder, I think the current system we are using works well and I can't imagine adding another class in between are already tightly packed schedule? We have the ability to use timing/scoring and lap times, are we going to use this??? because I remember it specifically said that it was once we were up n running with it.

darick
10-28-2004, 06:43 PM
While it is an interesting idea to ponder, I think the current system we are using works well and I can't imagine adding another class in between are already tightly packed schedule? We have the ability to use timing/scoring and lap times, are we going to use this??? because I remember it specifically said that it was once we were up n running with it.

Pierson Callahan
10-31-2004, 10:25 AM
I do not know how we could have time to run another class, I mean we don't even have time for the RRC much less a whole class, but Ty does have a good point. I'm a first year novice terrible slow, but I'm enjoying racing. What is the likely hood that once I'm an expert I'll be able to race with Ty, Sanchez, Ball? I'm done I'll probably never have a learning curve fast enough to race with those guy's, so I'll be the guy that everybody is complaining about being to slow for the experts. But because I spent 5 years in novices and finally got everybody moved up to experts and I'm the only one left in the class I'm starting to win races, so the following year I move up to expert, then what? I race becuse I enjoy the process, the people in the club, and I like being competative, but I realistically know that I more than likely will not be able to race with those guy's, I know "don't sell yourself short" "work hard, practice etc" that is all well and good but come on we know that when Ty enters a race he is probably going to win it (unless he wrecks). Having a white plate is not an ego thing for me I would rather be a yellow plate from here on out and have close battles with guy's and gal's for 5th in novice than last in expert!
This problem that Ty has brought up is just a testiment to the skill level in our club, The fact is we have one of the fastest clubs out there, if not the fastest. It is not a bad thing, it just is the way it is. I mean when we sent the guy's to mid Ohio to race what happened? We rocked!!!! I know it is easy to be a Monday morning Quarterback, I think the BOD has done a great job overall (even though they axed the RRC, sorry had to put my plug in!) and they are faced with tough problems all time. There is no easy fix but I think tiering would be an interesting option. Never know until you try.

Pierson Callahan
10-31-2004, 10:25 AM
I do not know how we could have time to run another class, I mean we don't even have time for the RRC much less a whole class, but Ty does have a good point. I'm a first year novice terrible slow, but I'm enjoying racing. What is the likely hood that once I'm an expert I'll be able to race with Ty, Sanchez, Ball? I'm done I'll probably never have a learning curve fast enough to race with those guy's, so I'll be the guy that everybody is complaining about being to slow for the experts. But because I spent 5 years in novices and finally got everybody moved up to experts and I'm the only one left in the class I'm starting to win races, so the following year I move up to expert, then what? I race becuse I enjoy the process, the people in the club, and I like being competative, but I realistically know that I more than likely will not be able to race with those guy's, I know "don't sell yourself short" "work hard, practice etc" that is all well and good but come on we know that when Ty enters a race he is probably going to win it (unless he wrecks). Having a white plate is not an ego thing for me I would rather be a yellow plate from here on out and have close battles with guy's and gal's for 5th in novice than last in expert!
This problem that Ty has brought up is just a testiment to the skill level in our club, The fact is we have one of the fastest clubs out there, if not the fastest. It is not a bad thing, it just is the way it is. I mean when we sent the guy's to mid Ohio to race what happened? We rocked!!!! I know it is easy to be a Monday morning Quarterback, I think the BOD has done a great job overall (even though they axed the RRC, sorry had to put my plug in!) and they are faced with tough problems all time. There is no easy fix but I think tiering would be an interesting option. Never know until you try.