PDA

View Full Version : Transponder - ok to mount INSIDE tail?



Sonny
05-16-2005, 03:14 PM
I've heard the repeated mentions at the rider meetings about lost transponders after a crash and the advice to fasten them securely with something other than zip ties. So I had my non-rechargable transponder mounted with zip-ties (that I hoped would break away in a crash) as well as safety wire that ran thru the mounting holes and attached to the subframe (so that the dislodged transponder would be dangling around the bike). Pretty smart, huh? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Well doofus had an off-track excursion, and part A worked (zip ties busted, transponder flew off into space rather than be crushed) but part B did not (safety wire sliced thru plastic mounting holes). So doofus is now on plan #2: mount inside the tail (on the subframe/undertray). This grand plan would
(a) prevent the damn puppy from launching into outer space in all but the most extreme crashes

(b) Minimize inconvenience to corner workers, crash truck haulers, and race schedule by crashed doofuses who insist on walking around the live race corner looking for their beloved and departed transponder.

(c) Require the tech inspector to peek under the tail to verify existance of the transponder ("peek thru this slot, now see the red object there in the gloomy corner? No? Have you had an eye exam recently?" /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif ). They would not however be able to look for the transponder number or the green light.

So, BOD, is this permissible? If no, why not?

On a related note, the AMB idiot sheet did say no metal between the transponder and the road, but the way they are currently mounted, the subframe, axles and wheels appear to intrude.

Sonny
05-16-2005, 03:14 PM
I've heard the repeated mentions at the rider meetings about lost transponders after a crash and the advice to fasten them securely with something other than zip ties. So I had my non-rechargable transponder mounted with zip-ties (that I hoped would break away in a crash) as well as safety wire that ran thru the mounting holes and attached to the subframe (so that the dislodged transponder would be dangling around the bike). Pretty smart, huh? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Well doofus had an off-track excursion, and part A worked (zip ties busted, transponder flew off into space rather than be crushed) but part B did not (safety wire sliced thru plastic mounting holes). So doofus is now on plan #2: mount inside the tail (on the subframe/undertray). This grand plan would
(a) prevent the damn puppy from launching into outer space in all but the most extreme crashes

(b) Minimize inconvenience to corner workers, crash truck haulers, and race schedule by crashed doofuses who insist on walking around the live race corner looking for their beloved and departed transponder.

(c) Require the tech inspector to peek under the tail to verify existance of the transponder ("peek thru this slot, now see the red object there in the gloomy corner? No? Have you had an eye exam recently?" /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif ). They would not however be able to look for the transponder number or the green light.

So, BOD, is this permissible? If no, why not?

On a related note, the AMB idiot sheet did say no metal between the transponder and the road, but the way they are currently mounted, the subframe, axles and wheels appear to intrude.

Derek Delpero
05-16-2005, 10:12 PM
We need to be able to see the transponder while you are on the track. If you mount it under the tail, then there is no way I can figure out if you have a transponder. Then in the case of a failure, I have to assume that you don't have one and you WILL NOT be scored (end of story).

Not mounting it on top of the tail section also makes it harder for pit out to verify you have a transponder.

Everyone, please mount your transponder on the top of your tail section and no where else.

Thanks - Derek

Derek Delpero
05-16-2005, 10:12 PM
We need to be able to see the transponder while you are on the track. If you mount it under the tail, then there is no way I can figure out if you have a transponder. Then in the case of a failure, I have to assume that you don't have one and you WILL NOT be scored (end of story).

Not mounting it on top of the tail section also makes it harder for pit out to verify you have a transponder.

Everyone, please mount your transponder on the top of your tail section and no where else.

Thanks - Derek

Sonny
05-19-2005, 12:15 PM
Derek, thanks for the reply and we do greatly appreciate the speedy results that you deliver.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Derek Delpero:
We need to be able to see the transponder while you are on the track.
</div></div>If the bike has passed tech, the transponder has been verified to be mounted, right? So what additional value is gained by having the manual scorer be able to see the transponder?

Sonny
05-19-2005, 12:15 PM
Derek, thanks for the reply and we do greatly appreciate the speedy results that you deliver.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Derek Delpero:
We need to be able to see the transponder while you are on the track.
</div></div>If the bike has passed tech, the transponder has been verified to be mounted, right? So what additional value is gained by having the manual scorer be able to see the transponder?

Nancy Selleck
05-19-2005, 12:58 PM
Some riders have more than one bike and have to transfer their transponder back and forth. Sometimes they forget.

If electronic scoring doesn't pick up your transponder during a race, then we verify visually that you have one mounted on your bike. If we don't see a transponder on the tail, you will not be scored. If there is a transponder on the bike and it's not working for one reason or another, then we'll be able to score you using manual scoring sheets.

Nancy Selleck
05-19-2005, 12:58 PM
Some riders have more than one bike and have to transfer their transponder back and forth. Sometimes they forget.

If electronic scoring doesn't pick up your transponder during a race, then we verify visually that you have one mounted on your bike. If we don't see a transponder on the tail, you will not be scored. If there is a transponder on the bike and it's not working for one reason or another, then we'll be able to score you using manual scoring sheets.

Tony Wang
05-21-2005, 03:06 AM
This kinda begs the question... So why is it that the CMRA requires the transponder to be on the tail section and not on the front forks like WERA?

Not trying to stir up any trouble, just curious...

Tony Wang
05-21-2005, 03:06 AM
This kinda begs the question... So why is it that the CMRA requires the transponder to be on the tail section and not on the front forks like WERA?

Not trying to stir up any trouble, just curious...

Troy Green
05-21-2005, 04:59 AM
Wouldn't it be easier to just manually score any bike that isn't showing up electronically?

What happens if someone almost highsides (but saves it) and kicks the transponder off of the tail section... do they NOT get scored just because they almost crashed?
And note if the transponder was mounted to the fork leg you couldn't knock it off by ALMOST crashing!

I thank you in advance for your time in considering my questions.

Troy

Troy Green
05-21-2005, 04:59 AM
Wouldn't it be easier to just manually score any bike that isn't showing up electronically?

What happens if someone almost highsides (but saves it) and kicks the transponder off of the tail section... do they NOT get scored just because they almost crashed?
And note if the transponder was mounted to the fork leg you couldn't knock it off by ALMOST crashing!

I thank you in advance for your time in considering my questions.

Troy

Derek Delpero
05-21-2005, 11:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Tony Wang:
This kinda begs the question... So why is it that the CMRA requires the transponder to be on the tail section and not on the front forks like WERA?

Not trying to stir up any trouble, just curious... </div></div>Just different ways of doing the same thing. I'll reiterate how we handle transponders:

If you go out with a known working transponder that is charged or powered and you mount that transponder on the tail section; you will be scored. Those are the rules. If you don't follow the rules then you will not be scored. It is really pretty simple. I believe the rule book outlines this.

If we see that your transponder is not working, we will make every effort to stop you after the race to test the transponder and determine if it has power or not. If we can not see the transponder, we will NOT stop you. Make sense?

Derek Delpero
05-21-2005, 11:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Tony Wang:
This kinda begs the question... So why is it that the CMRA requires the transponder to be on the tail section and not on the front forks like WERA?

Not trying to stir up any trouble, just curious... </div></div>Just different ways of doing the same thing. I'll reiterate how we handle transponders:

If you go out with a known working transponder that is charged or powered and you mount that transponder on the tail section; you will be scored. Those are the rules. If you don't follow the rules then you will not be scored. It is really pretty simple. I believe the rule book outlines this.

If we see that your transponder is not working, we will make every effort to stop you after the race to test the transponder and determine if it has power or not. If we can not see the transponder, we will NOT stop you. Make sense?

Derek Delpero
05-21-2005, 12:05 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Troy Green:
Wouldn't it be easier to just manually score any bike that isn't showing up electronically?

What happens if someone almost highsides (but saves it) and kicks the transponder off of the tail section... do they NOT get scored just because they almost crashed?
And note if the transponder was mounted to the fork leg you couldn't knock it off by ALMOST crashing!

I thank you in advance for your time in considering my questions.

Troy </div></div>Troy,

In your example you would be scored. It is very easy to notice a bike that all of a sudden stops showing up on the computer.

No, it is not just as easy to score anyone one missing a transponder manually. With 50-60 bikes in some classes it is sometimes impossible to determine who is being picked up and who is not. For example at TWS, Tony Wang's transponder was not working. It took us 5 laps to figure out which bike was not being picked up.

For electronic scoring to work, everyone needs to make an effort to follow the rules. IMHO, the responsibilty needs to be with the rider. And I believe the rule book supports that.

If we are constantly manually correcting races, then what is the point of using transponders in the first place? And please lets not start the, "then why do we have manual scorer?" discussion /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

It is really just a matter of following 3 simple rules:

1. Use known working transponder.
2. Charge or power transponder.
3. Mount transponder on top of tail section.

Everyone who follows those rules will be scored /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Derek

Derek Delpero
05-21-2005, 12:05 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Troy Green:
Wouldn't it be easier to just manually score any bike that isn't showing up electronically?

What happens if someone almost highsides (but saves it) and kicks the transponder off of the tail section... do they NOT get scored just because they almost crashed?
And note if the transponder was mounted to the fork leg you couldn't knock it off by ALMOST crashing!

I thank you in advance for your time in considering my questions.

Troy </div></div>Troy,

In your example you would be scored. It is very easy to notice a bike that all of a sudden stops showing up on the computer.

No, it is not just as easy to score anyone one missing a transponder manually. With 50-60 bikes in some classes it is sometimes impossible to determine who is being picked up and who is not. For example at TWS, Tony Wang's transponder was not working. It took us 5 laps to figure out which bike was not being picked up.

For electronic scoring to work, everyone needs to make an effort to follow the rules. IMHO, the responsibilty needs to be with the rider. And I believe the rule book supports that.

If we are constantly manually correcting races, then what is the point of using transponders in the first place? And please lets not start the, "then why do we have manual scorer?" discussion /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

It is really just a matter of following 3 simple rules:

1. Use known working transponder.
2. Charge or power transponder.
3. Mount transponder on top of tail section.

Everyone who follows those rules will be scored /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Derek

Derek Delpero
05-21-2005, 12:10 PM
BTW, speaking of WERA, does anyone have first hand knowledge of how WERA handles transponder issues?

Now I'm curious ... /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Derek Delpero
05-21-2005, 12:10 PM
BTW, speaking of WERA, does anyone have first hand knowledge of how WERA handles transponder issues?

Now I'm curious ... /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Kevin
05-21-2005, 01:38 PM
Derek, Any WERA team with any connection to JU will be scored no matter what-anyone else is probably SOL.

Kevin
05-21-2005, 01:38 PM
Derek, Any WERA team with any connection to JU will be scored no matter what-anyone else is probably SOL.

Troy Green
05-21-2005, 08:09 PM
Just to verify, if the situation I spelled out above happened on the warm-up lap, then the rider wouldn't be scored?

Troy
"Always entertianed #5"

Troy Green
05-21-2005, 08:09 PM
Just to verify, if the situation I spelled out above happened on the warm-up lap, then the rider wouldn't be scored?

Troy
"Always entertianed #5"

Tony Wang
05-22-2005, 01:05 AM
Derek,

I'm sure Cory knows a bit about WERA transponder issues... LOL...

Tony Wang
05-22-2005, 01:05 AM
Derek,

I'm sure Cory knows a bit about WERA transponder issues... LOL...

Derek Delpero
05-22-2005, 09:34 AM
Troy,

That's a good question. At some tracks you never cross the scoring loop until the start of the race.

Your best bet in this situation is to make sure to check the results immediately after the race. If you are not scored correctly, go to registration and tell us what happened.

I don't see any reason that you wouldn't be scored. Unless of course you wait until more than 30 minutes after the race. At that point results are final ...

Derek Delpero
05-22-2005, 09:34 AM
Troy,

That's a good question. At some tracks you never cross the scoring loop until the start of the race.

Your best bet in this situation is to make sure to check the results immediately after the race. If you are not scored correctly, go to registration and tell us what happened.

I don't see any reason that you wouldn't be scored. Unless of course you wait until more than 30 minutes after the race. At that point results are final ...

David Milner
05-22-2005, 06:46 PM
If the case that Troy outlines actually happened, would it be possible to flag an offical when you're gridding up for the start of the race so that he could alert manual scoring before the race ever started?

Just a thought.

I have a rechargeable AMD and the mount is zip tied to the tail, then the pin is safety wired shut, and then it's duct taped to the tail. I cut a hole so that I can see the light to make sure it's working correctly. I use the same transponder for both the endurance bike and the sprint bike so at each pitstop or between sprints, I glance to make sure it's still working.

Maybe a loop of twisted safety wire with heat shrink tube over it and then that safety wired to the rear sub would work.

I'll have to check that /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

David Milner
05-22-2005, 06:46 PM
If the case that Troy outlines actually happened, would it be possible to flag an offical when you're gridding up for the start of the race so that he could alert manual scoring before the race ever started?

Just a thought.

I have a rechargeable AMD and the mount is zip tied to the tail, then the pin is safety wired shut, and then it's duct taped to the tail. I cut a hole so that I can see the light to make sure it's working correctly. I use the same transponder for both the endurance bike and the sprint bike so at each pitstop or between sprints, I glance to make sure it's still working.

Maybe a loop of twisted safety wire with heat shrink tube over it and then that safety wired to the rear sub would work.

I'll have to check that /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Derek Delpero
05-22-2005, 10:20 PM
David,

Yes, if Troy's thoughts become reality, PLEASE tell someone on the grid. The sooner we know there is a problem, the easier it is for us to fix.

Derek Delpero
05-22-2005, 10:20 PM
David,

Yes, if Troy's thoughts become reality, PLEASE tell someone on the grid. The sooner we know there is a problem, the easier it is for us to fix.

Jonathan Wright
05-24-2005, 03:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For example at TWS, Tony Wang's transponder was not working. It took us 5 laps to figure out which bike was not being picked up.
</div></div>Figures an Arkie would give ya trouble. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

I know there are more ways than one to skin a cat and I'm NOT complaining here.

I'm curious as to why on top of the tail section and not like on the fork.

Was that decision made primarily because it would make the transponder easy to see from the scoring booth, Derek? Or were there other factors as well?

Jonathan Wright
05-24-2005, 03:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For example at TWS, Tony Wang's transponder was not working. It took us 5 laps to figure out which bike was not being picked up.
</div></div>Figures an Arkie would give ya trouble. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

I know there are more ways than one to skin a cat and I'm NOT complaining here.

I'm curious as to why on top of the tail section and not like on the fork.

Was that decision made primarily because it would make the transponder easy to see from the scoring booth, Derek? Or were there other factors as well?

Derek Delpero
05-24-2005, 11:43 PM
Jonathan, yes we need to be able to see the transponder. I think there would be too many obstructions on the fork, and then we'd be discussing whether the transponder should be mounted on the left or right fork. So how about right on top and in the middle of the tail section?

At PPIR last weekend, the AMA had a sign at the entrance to pit out that said, "Got Transponder?" ... I thought it was funny /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Derek Delpero
05-24-2005, 11:43 PM
Jonathan, yes we need to be able to see the transponder. I think there would be too many obstructions on the fork, and then we'd be discussing whether the transponder should be mounted on the left or right fork. So how about right on top and in the middle of the tail section?

At PPIR last weekend, the AMA had a sign at the entrance to pit out that said, "Got Transponder?" ... I thought it was funny /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Jonathan Wright
05-25-2005, 11:41 AM
Werd.

Jonathan Wright
05-25-2005, 11:41 AM
Werd.

Tony Wang
05-25-2005, 05:32 PM
Yeah, Derek, I've seen that sign before. I about fell over when I saw it. Race humor. Ain't it grand. LOL...

Tony Wang
05-25-2005, 05:32 PM
Yeah, Derek, I've seen that sign before. I about fell over when I saw it. Race humor. Ain't it grand. LOL...

David Milner
05-29-2005, 12:44 AM
On the 15th reading, I have a question.

if I build a bracket that put the top of the transponder flush with the top of the tail, would it pass tech?

it will move the transponder out of kick range when riders are mounting the bike but should allow everyone to see the device.

Thoughts, comments?

Thanks for listening,

David

David Milner
05-29-2005, 12:44 AM
On the 15th reading, I have a question.

if I build a bracket that put the top of the transponder flush with the top of the tail, would it pass tech?

it will move the transponder out of kick range when riders are mounting the bike but should allow everyone to see the device.

Thoughts, comments?

Thanks for listening,

David

Derek Delpero
05-29-2005, 11:17 AM
David,

As long as the transponder can be seen from either side of the track, sure.

Thanks for asking - Derek

Derek Delpero
05-29-2005, 11:17 AM
David,

As long as the transponder can be seen from either side of the track, sure.

Thanks for asking - Derek

Nancy Selleck
05-29-2005, 12:53 PM
Seen at 100+ miles per hour. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Nancy Selleck
05-29-2005, 12:53 PM
Seen at 100+ miles per hour. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

JesseJohnson
05-29-2005, 03:30 PM
CMRA is now requiring all riders wear their transponders on their head. We figure, if you loose your helmet, your transponder won't matter so much..

Troy, do not confuse your head with your posterior, as you will not be scored if we can't see the transponder.

Jess


Disclaimer for those with no sense of humor: This message is not the official position of the CMRA BOD. It is purely satire.

JesseJohnson
05-29-2005, 03:30 PM
CMRA is now requiring all riders wear their transponders on their head. We figure, if you loose your helmet, your transponder won't matter so much..

Troy, do not confuse your head with your posterior, as you will not be scored if we can't see the transponder.

Jess


Disclaimer for those with no sense of humor: This message is not the official position of the CMRA BOD. It is purely satire.

Chuck Ergle
05-29-2005, 04:56 PM
I was going to mount mine on a ten foot lance that I'll couch in my left arm. The advantages: it can be seen from both sides of the track at 100mph, can't be kicked off the tail section when I swing my now-gimpy right leg over it getting on or off, would be useful for jousting the competition if'n they get in my way, and in the event of a close finish, I can fling it out front for a decisive victory. GENIUS!!

Chuck Ergle
05-29-2005, 04:56 PM
I was going to mount mine on a ten foot lance that I'll couch in my left arm. The advantages: it can be seen from both sides of the track at 100mph, can't be kicked off the tail section when I swing my now-gimpy right leg over it getting on or off, would be useful for jousting the competition if'n they get in my way, and in the event of a close finish, I can fling it out front for a decisive victory. GENIUS!!

Linz Leard
05-30-2005, 10:53 AM
We were thinking of getting TSA to screen for xponders before a rider takes to the track, but, aside from the fact that a racer would be forced to enter pit out with his/her boots off, we started to think that we wanted to actually get some racing done, too. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Linz Leard
05-30-2005, 10:53 AM
We were thinking of getting TSA to screen for xponders before a rider takes to the track, but, aside from the fact that a racer would be forced to enter pit out with his/her boots off, we started to think that we wanted to actually get some racing done, too. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Jason Keene
05-30-2005, 11:45 AM
I'm working on a dummy transponder for my bike...

the real one will be mounted to NW Honda's bike in a secret place.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Jason Keene
05-30-2005, 11:45 AM
I'm working on a dummy transponder for my bike...

the real one will be mounted to NW Honda's bike in a secret place.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

cedestech
05-30-2005, 09:19 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Jason Keene:
I'm working on a dummy transponder for my bike...

the real one will be mounted to NW Honda's bike in a secret place.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif </div></div>And I think we have a winner........

cedestech
05-30-2005, 09:19 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Jason Keene:
I'm working on a dummy transponder for my bike...

the real one will be mounted to NW Honda's bike in a secret place.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif </div></div>And I think we have a winner........

Derek Delpero
05-30-2005, 11:01 PM
Actually, I think we could make an exception for some you to mount your transponder up your posterior ... Emmett would you like to volunteer? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Derek Delpero
05-30-2005, 11:01 PM
Actually, I think we could make an exception for some you to mount your transponder up your posterior ... Emmett would you like to volunteer? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Nancy Selleck
05-30-2005, 11:26 PM
Do they actually have to race with it or is it okay if they just practice? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Nancy Selleck
05-30-2005, 11:26 PM
Do they actually have to race with it or is it okay if they just practice? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Jonathan Wright
06-02-2005, 11:52 AM
Practice insertion or racing?

Oooo. That one will leave a mark! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Jonathan Wright
06-02-2005, 11:52 AM
Practice insertion or racing?

Oooo. That one will leave a mark! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

wsb742
06-02-2005, 12:56 PM
If you practice fast enough, it might be racing........

wsb742
06-02-2005, 12:56 PM
If you practice fast enough, it might be racing........

Michael Patterson
06-06-2005, 09:20 AM
Some riders have more than one bike and have to transfer their transponder back and forth. Sometimes they forget.

If electronic scoring doesn't pick up your transponder during a race, then we verify visually that you have one mounted on your bike. If we don't see a transponder on the tail, you will not be scored. If there is a transponder on the bike and it's not working for one reason or another, then we'll be able to score you using manual scoring sheets.

this was Nancy's post

Well we ran into this situation at MSR where our rider accidentally hit the switch to his transponder and turned it off. The transponder was visible on the tail but wasn't working and we were told he wouldn't be scored. "tuff luck"

My statement about this is IF WE ONLY USE TRANSPONDERS AND ARE NOT GOING TO MANUALLY SCORE WHEN THERE IS A PROBLEM, THEN STATE THAT. Don't mislead the racers and give them the false sence of security thinking they will be scored, when in reality they are SOL.

My next statement is just to stir the S$#* a little. If we are only going to use transponders the why worry about regulations on numberplates, hell why even have numbers at all.

just my 50 cents worth

Michael Patterson
06-06-2005, 09:20 AM
Some riders have more than one bike and have to transfer their transponder back and forth. Sometimes they forget.

If electronic scoring doesn't pick up your transponder during a race, then we verify visually that you have one mounted on your bike. If we don't see a transponder on the tail, you will not be scored. If there is a transponder on the bike and it's not working for one reason or another, then we'll be able to score you using manual scoring sheets.

this was Nancy's post

Well we ran into this situation at MSR where our rider accidentally hit the switch to his transponder and turned it off. The transponder was visible on the tail but wasn't working and we were told he wouldn't be scored. "tuff luck"

My statement about this is IF WE ONLY USE TRANSPONDERS AND ARE NOT GOING TO MANUALLY SCORE WHEN THERE IS A PROBLEM, THEN STATE THAT. Don't mislead the racers and give them the false sence of security thinking they will be scored, when in reality they are SOL.

My next statement is just to stir the S$#* a little. If we are only going to use transponders the why worry about regulations on numberplates, hell why even have numbers at all.

just my 50 cents worth

Derek Delpero
06-06-2005, 09:50 AM
Michael,

Sorry if you think Nancy's orginal statement was misleading, but re-read the 3 rules and you'll see that I explicity mentioned that the transponder be powered. Besides a rider turning their transponder off does not constitute "not working", it would work just fine if it was turned on.

As for your pot stirring, we need numbers for many reasons.

1. So we can verify your grid position.
2. If the scoring system fails, then we can actually score you.
3. if you crash and you can't tell us who you are, we can look at your number and figure it out.
4. ???

This past weekend, the only transponder problems we had were with the hard wired ones. Maybe you guys need to find a better place to mount your switch and make sure the ground is working. Maybe an idiot light? I don't know, something.

Can we just drop this topic? We're really not accomplishing anything. If we had manual scoring only, then others would be complaining about messed up results. In fact regardless of what we do, there is someone out there that will complain.

Anyway, this is the last I'm going to say about this topic.

1. Use known working transponder.
2. Charge or power transponder.
3. Mount transponder on top of tail section.

Derek Delpero
06-06-2005, 09:50 AM
Michael,

Sorry if you think Nancy's orginal statement was misleading, but re-read the 3 rules and you'll see that I explicity mentioned that the transponder be powered. Besides a rider turning their transponder off does not constitute "not working", it would work just fine if it was turned on.

As for your pot stirring, we need numbers for many reasons.

1. So we can verify your grid position.
2. If the scoring system fails, then we can actually score you.
3. if you crash and you can't tell us who you are, we can look at your number and figure it out.
4. ???

This past weekend, the only transponder problems we had were with the hard wired ones. Maybe you guys need to find a better place to mount your switch and make sure the ground is working. Maybe an idiot light? I don't know, something.

Can we just drop this topic? We're really not accomplishing anything. If we had manual scoring only, then others would be complaining about messed up results. In fact regardless of what we do, there is someone out there that will complain.

Anyway, this is the last I'm going to say about this topic.

1. Use known working transponder.
2. Charge or power transponder.
3. Mount transponder on top of tail section.

Michael Patterson
06-06-2005, 10:52 AM
Our transponder problem will not happen again. I understand your point. Maybe I misunderstood how scoring works. this topic is dropped, i wont bring anything up again about it.

thanks for clearing it up for me. the CMRA and all that make the club possible are the best.

thanks for a great weekend of racing. and sorry for any problems i might have caused.

Michael Patterson
06-06-2005, 10:52 AM
Our transponder problem will not happen again. I understand your point. Maybe I misunderstood how scoring works. this topic is dropped, i wont bring anything up again about it.

thanks for clearing it up for me. the CMRA and all that make the club possible are the best.

thanks for a great weekend of racing. and sorry for any problems i might have caused.