View Full Version : Condescending tone

06-06-2003, 09:22 AM
Just my opinion, but I get irked every time RRW places its negative sounding titles and tone on everything that is posted by the AMA. I am NOT saying they (the AMA) do, or do not, deserve it. What I am saying to RRW, "it is old". We know your mutual history. I say get over it.


06-06-2003, 09:59 AM
J U is on the board but I think he wants to run it all.

John D. Ulrich
Southwest Region
P.O. Box 1428
Lake Elsinore, CA 92530-1428

06-06-2003, 10:32 AM
Dunno if JU hangs out here much, but if you wanna get your point across, post it to the WERA board. He's there all the time and you'll probably get some lively "conversations" going.

Brooks Gremmels
06-06-2003, 11:14 AM
I'd like to add my two cents to this conversation.
I am of the opinion that the AMA should stick to being a sanctioning body and a legislative lobbying organization. They have proven to do both of these jobs very well.
For too long racers of national caliber were racing on courses such as the ones in Phoenix and Memphis (and Loudin, in the rain), in AMA-promoted events. Rider's input about the carnage was not acknowledged until RRWorld picked up the torch. Those venues are no longer on the AMA schedule.
The Edmundson/AMA lawsuit cost the AMA members, of which I am one, over $6MM. That money could have been applied to so many rider-oriented causes. RRWorld articles detailed the exposure that the AMA was courting in it's litigation with Edmundson. I for one wish the AMA had listened.
Finally, RRWorld is THE racer's advocate in every way. The Air Fence Fund is a single example of the thrust of John Ulrich's efforts. I personally hope that RRWorld will continue to shine a bright light on the role the AMA plays in the life of roadracers. No one but JU offers this perspective and is brave enough to be out front about issues that concern the safety and livlyhood of roadracers.

Jack Giesecke
06-06-2003, 11:55 AM
I'm not a complete AMA hater, but I agree with Brooks. AMA has had its head up its *** for so long, I begin to wonder if they even care about the privateer or rider safety. IMHO, when AMA needs criticizing (that's pretty often), I enjoy reading it.

Another track that should go IMHO is PPIR. That place is aweful, what I've seen of it, just on TV, but last year Hayden was getting so close to that wall there I swear he was using it for a berm! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

marcus mcbain
06-06-2003, 12:00 PM
Without a doubt, JU has some good intentions. I do wonder aloud how constructive they are at times.

In regards to the Edmundson case. JU did not consistently mention Roger E. Left the AMA a hated man by the riders. Roger E. is the sole person that was responsible to for trying to get riders to launch themselves into the Phoenix walls on a wet track in the early 90's. AMA hasn't raced Memphis for decades. The fact the AMA dropped Loudon shows that pressure (ala JU Style) works.

I have found that many people that "run things" in this sport vary rarely if ever have extensive experience actually racing. Those that do are not necessarily the kind of people that retire and become proficient at managing racing. It is a tough thing to do (Understand racing and be able to manage the race process). I firmly believe Nascar can be looked at as the epitome of what motorsports should strive for from a "this is how you make it work". The France family understood racing and to take care of the driver (their product). They realized that treating their drivers as a valued product was not only the safe thing to do, but the best business decision. The AMA would do well to understand that philosophy fully. Instead the AMA (like many other bodies) alienates itself from any ideas that don't come from it's limited intellectual reserves.

I think you have to look past the specific words and look at who is sending the message. Having seen JU from both sides of his disposition, I can honestly say JU is doing a sincerely honest job that is only intended to get Motorcycle roadracing to where it needs to be. It is very easy for the AMA to "shoot down" differing opinions regardless of how valid they are. They have a lot of sheep that don't know better supporting them. It makes it tough for someone like JU (who is a deeply experienced racing industry professional) to bring appropriate ideas to the table while the AMA is bullying him in every meeting/vote that he participates in. Maybe the wording is not the best on his headlines, but the intent has no malice.


06-06-2003, 02:44 PM
I'm not arguing any of the above points.
It is as simple as this:
'Treat people as you want to be treated'

Does it take belittling (sp?) to get your point across?


John Ross
06-07-2003, 09:13 AM
Brooks and Marcus hit-on some good points...
If you ever plan to win an argument with JU, you better do your homework! But, you'll probably still lose, ha!
JU can tell it like it is and get away with it, partly because he has earned the right and respect to do so.
Finally, to know JU is to really like the guy. He's good people.

E. Templet
06-07-2003, 10:59 AM
With regard to any representing organization:
The role of leadership is "service". What you do for the people you have dedicated yourself to represent, should be in their best interest, not yours. Your true power eminates from the people you represent, as "you" are "their" delegate. Hence, the power you wield is not your own, but the power and will of the group, whose herald you are.

There in lies a problem as "some" lose touch and become more of a "president" than a "representative".

I have often found that being a representative is a no win situation with regard to your constituants. The only success one has in this regard, is to know that he/she has done that job to the best of their ability. Having a Vocation to a cause does not insure success, only that you will be faithfull to that cause.

With regard to J. Ulrich, while I believe he is a great warrior, he is certainly no Senator, Ambassador, or Abitrator. He is more like Brando in "Apocalypse Now". There is nothing wrong with that, but being on a committee with him...well... I'd rather not.

I did cancle my RRW subscription because the magazine is way to cumbersome for me to read, plus, I feel that sometimes the articles are devicive, often contain unnecessary vulgar language, and there were even pictures posted in the magazine under the objection of GP teams. I must note that ,to be sure, I am certainly not in the age group to which the publication is directed.

I do appreciate the work J. Ulrich does for the racing community, he is a voice we need, and we are better off with him than without.

My opinions and thoughts only.

06-07-2003, 01:15 PM
The AMA is a marketing tool. It's the motorcycle industry's co-op designed to promote the continued sale of motorcycles in this country. The riders are the secondary beneficiaries. It's sorta like chicken / egg. We're the egg. (Or is it the chicken?) /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Regardless, JU treats the AMA like a bad marriage, too stubborn to get out - but not ever finding anything nice to say. Most of us have learned that the truth generally lies somewhere between what the AMA says and what JU percieves it to be. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

E. Templet
06-07-2003, 03:30 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Andre Espaillat:
Regardless, JU treats the AMA like a bad marriage, too stubborn to get out - but not ever finding anything nice to say. Most of us have learned that the truth generally lies somewhere between what the AMA says and what JU percieves it to be. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif </div></div>And whatever Ulrich perceives gets posted in a nationally published magazine. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Kind of a neat edge isn't it? Such is life. It's seems that often our only hope is a draft and pass in the final corner. I got my nitrous bottle ready. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

06-08-2003, 09:09 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by E. Templet:
And whatever Ulrich perceives gets posted in a nationally published magazine. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>Never start an argument with a man who buys ink by the barrel...

E. Templet
06-08-2003, 10:44 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bob Dickey:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"></div></div>Never start an argument with a man who buys ink by the barrel...[/qb]</div></div>Touche! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

That's the trouble with the media in general. You often get one sided and slanted information. I wouldn't accuse RRW of doing that on a regular basis, I believe JU has been fair in his representations and has offered other the right to post counterpoints.

This is a bit off topic and I make no reference to anyone when I say this but, We all need to quit satiating our "I" syndrome and look for what's best for "we" and "us". It's a hard thing to do, but it is necessary if we are to move forward in any endeavor.