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View Full Version : No Yellow Shirts in Big Bike Endurance #2



Norm McDonald
11-10-2005, 01:05 PM
Prov. Novice (yellow shirts) will no longer be permitted to ride the CMRA Big Bike Endurance. With our full grids and the varying speeds as much as 50 mph or more the BOD agreed the would be less risk to all if new riders completed the requirements of 2 sprint race weekends without a crash and 2 corner working days to receive your Novice license. The CMRA has brought the Prov. Novice race back for 2006 to help get your confidence and your skills up to speed. We will have a Prov. Novice race at all race weekends. Norm

Norm McDonald
11-10-2005, 01:05 PM
Prov. Novice (yellow shirts) will no longer be permitted to ride the CMRA Big Bike Endurance. With our full grids and the varying speeds as much as 50 mph or more the BOD agreed the would be less risk to all if new riders completed the requirements of 2 sprint race weekends without a crash and 2 corner working days to receive your Novice license. The CMRA has brought the Prov. Novice race back for 2006 to help get your confidence and your skills up to speed. We will have a Prov. Novice race at all race weekends. Norm

Bob Cronin
11-11-2005, 09:15 AM
Suggestion.
Once the rider has completed what you have mentioned, should it still be required that the new rider still wear a yellow shirt if only to tell others that this is their first time out for endurance?

Bob Cronin
11-11-2005, 09:15 AM
Suggestion.
Once the rider has completed what you have mentioned, should it still be required that the new rider still wear a yellow shirt if only to tell others that this is their first time out for endurance?

Executioner
11-11-2005, 06:56 PM
Norm, bummer! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif I ran the final race at TWS in October as my first and am in the process of lining up a ride for endurance next year. So this means I can't compete the first race... /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

Besides, what about the people that join the CMRA exclusively to run endurance?

Also, please explain the Novice race?

Executioner
11-11-2005, 06:56 PM
Norm, bummer! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif I ran the final race at TWS in October as my first and am in the process of lining up a ride for endurance next year. So this means I can't compete the first race... /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

Besides, what about the people that join the CMRA exclusively to run endurance?

Also, please explain the Novice race?

2SlowButTryin
11-11-2005, 07:21 PM
I can understand the need for safety but at what point does it go to far? I raced my first endurance at TWS. Team: Yellow Shirt Racing. It was 3 yellow shirts. We placed 22 out of 47 teams and 6th out of 15 in the Superstock C class. One of our guys did the school at Oak Hill and ran 1 race. I did Hallet the round before. So experience was not in our favor. How is speed a concern when I slow C class bike runs the same speed as a moderate paced formula 1? Most of my excitement came from battleing it out with the SV's!! ButI don't see how it was dangerous. Actually the endurance is SAFER then sprints. Sprints go ALL OUT for 8 laps. Endurance there is no time limit. No one goes crazy... And the bright yellow shirt lets everyone know "HEY... don't Bump me, or Cut me off too close..."
All my guys but one have dropped the shirt but I still disagree with this call. What about guys that just want to endurance? We are going to force them to sprint for 2 weekends so they can run the race they want? Maybe I am still new enough to not see the danger. Maybe I was a danger to others and didn't know it... But from the knowledge I have... My opinion is that's the wrong call.... But again.. that's just my .02

2SlowButTryin
11-11-2005, 07:21 PM
I can understand the need for safety but at what point does it go to far? I raced my first endurance at TWS. Team: Yellow Shirt Racing. It was 3 yellow shirts. We placed 22 out of 47 teams and 6th out of 15 in the Superstock C class. One of our guys did the school at Oak Hill and ran 1 race. I did Hallet the round before. So experience was not in our favor. How is speed a concern when I slow C class bike runs the same speed as a moderate paced formula 1? Most of my excitement came from battleing it out with the SV's!! ButI don't see how it was dangerous. Actually the endurance is SAFER then sprints. Sprints go ALL OUT for 8 laps. Endurance there is no time limit. No one goes crazy... And the bright yellow shirt lets everyone know "HEY... don't Bump me, or Cut me off too close..."
All my guys but one have dropped the shirt but I still disagree with this call. What about guys that just want to endurance? We are going to force them to sprint for 2 weekends so they can run the race they want? Maybe I am still new enough to not see the danger. Maybe I was a danger to others and didn't know it... But from the knowledge I have... My opinion is that's the wrong call.... But again.. that's just my .02

Ty Howard
11-13-2005, 07:44 PM
This is a great idea. Prov nov. should get a feel for competition racing in the Prov. nov. race and regular novice races before moving to endurance. The problem is that alot of guys enter the endurance race just to make laps. The rest are out there to give it all they have and win a race.

During the few endurance races I rode this year, I thought I entered the provisional novice race. A bunch of yellow shorts that were very new to the race track. It didn't bother me because the team I rode with just entered because we were bored and the grid was open. If I was trying to win the thing it would have been very difficult to do so without endangering many yellow shirts.

Newbees have to remember that they are on the track with many experienced experts that are racing as hard as they can to win these races for their team and sponsors. If a fast guy is racing with another fast guy and they enter the rattlesnake at Cresson. There is a group of yellow shirts entering the same corner, I don't know why I always see the yellow shirts in a pack together. One fast guy makes it by the pack before the group of corners. The other fast guy has to decide if its worth banging the slower riders out of the way or waiting until the next straight to pass the group.

If he waits, which most do, he loses about 10 seconds to the guy he was just battling with. It could take the rest of the hour to make up 10 seconds on a fast guy. Had this same group of riders been able to race sprint races and gotten up to speed before entering a endurance race, they would have been much quicker in the rattlesnack and a potential accident could be avoided.

I have no intentions of riding endurance anytime soon. So the decision doesn't bother me one bit. I would like to say that the BOD is making a good decision on this call. I know there is alot of prov. nov. that would disagree.

Consider this, whether your a fast yellow shirt or a slow yellow shirt. There are many yellow shirts in the endurance that are incredible slow. They are very dangerous to the faster riders. A yellow shirt that has never seen a track before and is riding a SV during the endurance is closed on very fast by teams like Northwest Honda.

Sometimes the closing speeds are so fast the guys have to run off track to miss them because they saw them to late. I know this because I had to do this many times during the 2000 season when I was riding for Team Green Kawasaki. Sometimes I would have sworn the slower rider was stopped on the side of the track, because the closing speeds were so fast.

So yellow shirts please don't take this personally by the BoD, but there is no way to seperate fast yellow shirts from slow yellow shirts. So all are one.

Ty Howard
11-13-2005, 07:44 PM
This is a great idea. Prov nov. should get a feel for competition racing in the Prov. nov. race and regular novice races before moving to endurance. The problem is that alot of guys enter the endurance race just to make laps. The rest are out there to give it all they have and win a race.

During the few endurance races I rode this year, I thought I entered the provisional novice race. A bunch of yellow shorts that were very new to the race track. It didn't bother me because the team I rode with just entered because we were bored and the grid was open. If I was trying to win the thing it would have been very difficult to do so without endangering many yellow shirts.

Newbees have to remember that they are on the track with many experienced experts that are racing as hard as they can to win these races for their team and sponsors. If a fast guy is racing with another fast guy and they enter the rattlesnake at Cresson. There is a group of yellow shirts entering the same corner, I don't know why I always see the yellow shirts in a pack together. One fast guy makes it by the pack before the group of corners. The other fast guy has to decide if its worth banging the slower riders out of the way or waiting until the next straight to pass the group.

If he waits, which most do, he loses about 10 seconds to the guy he was just battling with. It could take the rest of the hour to make up 10 seconds on a fast guy. Had this same group of riders been able to race sprint races and gotten up to speed before entering a endurance race, they would have been much quicker in the rattlesnack and a potential accident could be avoided.

I have no intentions of riding endurance anytime soon. So the decision doesn't bother me one bit. I would like to say that the BOD is making a good decision on this call. I know there is alot of prov. nov. that would disagree.

Consider this, whether your a fast yellow shirt or a slow yellow shirt. There are many yellow shirts in the endurance that are incredible slow. They are very dangerous to the faster riders. A yellow shirt that has never seen a track before and is riding a SV during the endurance is closed on very fast by teams like Northwest Honda.

Sometimes the closing speeds are so fast the guys have to run off track to miss them because they saw them to late. I know this because I had to do this many times during the 2000 season when I was riding for Team Green Kawasaki. Sometimes I would have sworn the slower rider was stopped on the side of the track, because the closing speeds were so fast.

So yellow shirts please don't take this personally by the BoD, but there is no way to seperate fast yellow shirts from slow yellow shirts. So all are one.

2SlowButTryin
11-14-2005, 06:55 PM
Ok... I guess that makes sense.. we have to work with the lowest common denominator... (the slowest guy possible for you mathmatically challenged individuals)..

Would it be possible to have an appeal process for the fast yellow shirts kinda like we have for the sandbaggers, err fast guys staying Novice...??

Maybe if a yellow shirt can show fast practice times on the next track they can qualify for the endurance. Our 3rd yellow shirt did 12-14 track days at TWS before the endurance so he had the fastest lap. But he has never run any other track.
This might be a good out for guys looking to endurance the begining of the year. Go practice the track, turn in lap times to the BOD and see if they let you race.

Just an idea...

2SlowButTryin
11-14-2005, 06:55 PM
Ok... I guess that makes sense.. we have to work with the lowest common denominator... (the slowest guy possible for you mathmatically challenged individuals)..

Would it be possible to have an appeal process for the fast yellow shirts kinda like we have for the sandbaggers, err fast guys staying Novice...??

Maybe if a yellow shirt can show fast practice times on the next track they can qualify for the endurance. Our 3rd yellow shirt did 12-14 track days at TWS before the endurance so he had the fastest lap. But he has never run any other track.
This might be a good out for guys looking to endurance the begining of the year. Go practice the track, turn in lap times to the BOD and see if they let you race.

Just an idea...

Bob Cronin
11-16-2005, 12:17 PM
Russel-

In part, your idea makes sense. But what if the fast guys are just that-fast? They still don't know how to play well with others. There are a great many people out there on the track that are faster than me (who isn't?) but they don't deal with traffic well.
How much practice in traffic does one get at a track day? Almost none.

Bob Cronin
11-16-2005, 12:17 PM
Russel-

In part, your idea makes sense. But what if the fast guys are just that-fast? They still don't know how to play well with others. There are a great many people out there on the track that are faster than me (who isn't?) but they don't deal with traffic well.
How much practice in traffic does one get at a track day? Almost none.

2SlowButTryin
11-16-2005, 01:11 PM
Are we worried about the fast guys not knowing how to pass or the slow guys freaking when they do get passed?

A yellowshirt will get passed plenty at a track day. Put him in the advanced group with the rest of the racers. He can get used to getting passed and learn alot from the lines and speed of the other riders.

If the fast guys are having problems with traffic, (I know I do) then maybe they should sign up for a B or C group to practice getting around a slower rider.
I loved the mixed practice at Oak Hill. I had white plates showing me lines and pushing me and there were yellow shirts and lightweights that I would practice passing. It helped my confidence TONS...
BACK TO SUBJECT> If a yellow shirt is fast enough to submit an appeal then they have practiced enough they know what it is to pass and get passed. You don't turn a sub 2:00 TWS lap and not understand how to pick a line and follow through. I'm just saying if you are fast enough to run with the big boys then we should let them. But by all means keep out the ones who can't.
I've come over. NO YELLOW SHIRTS IN BBE. Unless they can appeal with an acceptable time... /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

2SlowButTryin
11-16-2005, 01:11 PM
Are we worried about the fast guys not knowing how to pass or the slow guys freaking when they do get passed?

A yellowshirt will get passed plenty at a track day. Put him in the advanced group with the rest of the racers. He can get used to getting passed and learn alot from the lines and speed of the other riders.

If the fast guys are having problems with traffic, (I know I do) then maybe they should sign up for a B or C group to practice getting around a slower rider.
I loved the mixed practice at Oak Hill. I had white plates showing me lines and pushing me and there were yellow shirts and lightweights that I would practice passing. It helped my confidence TONS...
BACK TO SUBJECT> If a yellow shirt is fast enough to submit an appeal then they have practiced enough they know what it is to pass and get passed. You don't turn a sub 2:00 TWS lap and not understand how to pick a line and follow through. I'm just saying if you are fast enough to run with the big boys then we should let them. But by all means keep out the ones who can't.
I've come over. NO YELLOW SHIRTS IN BBE. Unless they can appeal with an acceptable time... /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Tom Anderson
11-16-2005, 01:35 PM
Who has time to work the appeals, decide what "good enough" is, etc?

You're acting like prov-nov racers will never get to race endurance- it is 2 weekends out of an entire season- live with it.

The only people I see here complaining about it are the provisional novices or ones who recently "lost their shirt". Is it a coincidence that some really fast guys (like Ty) and people who have regularly been racing endurance and sprints fully support this? Think they may know something new racers don't?

Not trying to ruffle your feathers Russel- for all I know about you, you could be Ty's closest competitor or something. I am just expressing that there are those making a mountain out of a molehill here. BoD made the decision, we are the ones that put them in that position, the decision was made for the greater good, case closed. If you don't like the decision, petition them to change the rule for the '07 season.

Tom Anderson
11-16-2005, 01:35 PM
Who has time to work the appeals, decide what "good enough" is, etc?

You're acting like prov-nov racers will never get to race endurance- it is 2 weekends out of an entire season- live with it.

The only people I see here complaining about it are the provisional novices or ones who recently "lost their shirt". Is it a coincidence that some really fast guys (like Ty) and people who have regularly been racing endurance and sprints fully support this? Think they may know something new racers don't?

Not trying to ruffle your feathers Russel- for all I know about you, you could be Ty's closest competitor or something. I am just expressing that there are those making a mountain out of a molehill here. BoD made the decision, we are the ones that put them in that position, the decision was made for the greater good, case closed. If you don't like the decision, petition them to change the rule for the '07 season.

2SlowButTryin
11-16-2005, 01:53 PM
This MBoard lives in the world of theory. It's nice, Everything works the way it should. The BOD has to take the ideas, good and bad that spawn here and see which ones will work in the real world.

What I do know is it is easier to get envolved with an endurance team then it is to sprint.

Sprint-
Buy bike, tires, warmers, ect. 1,000's of $$$
Learn mistakes the hard way cause your a rookie.
100's of $$$'s..
Entry fees-100-200

Endurance-
Show up and hand someone 200-500 $$'s and run with thier equipment, learning from someone who knows. Get more track time for the money.

I just know how much more I would've learned if I had started with the endurance instead of the sprints. With this setup, you have to own a bike before you can edurance.

Unless... You want to lone a Yellow your bike for 2 SPRINT races???

I'm not expecting anything to change. I'll still be running next year regardless. Kinda like cough syrup. I don't like it but I'll swallow it anyways.

2SlowButTryin
11-16-2005, 01:53 PM
This MBoard lives in the world of theory. It's nice, Everything works the way it should. The BOD has to take the ideas, good and bad that spawn here and see which ones will work in the real world.

What I do know is it is easier to get envolved with an endurance team then it is to sprint.

Sprint-
Buy bike, tires, warmers, ect. 1,000's of $$$
Learn mistakes the hard way cause your a rookie.
100's of $$$'s..
Entry fees-100-200

Endurance-
Show up and hand someone 200-500 $$'s and run with thier equipment, learning from someone who knows. Get more track time for the money.

I just know how much more I would've learned if I had started with the endurance instead of the sprints. With this setup, you have to own a bike before you can edurance.

Unless... You want to lone a Yellow your bike for 2 SPRINT races???

I'm not expecting anything to change. I'll still be running next year regardless. Kinda like cough syrup. I don't like it but I'll swallow it anyways.

Walter Walker
11-16-2005, 02:04 PM
This is not something the BOD just came up with. The CMRA had this policy for years. We got away from it when the entries were low. Now that we no longer have that problem the BOD brought it back. With the ProvNov race back in those that still have to finish there 2 races only stand to miss one 4 hour endurance.

The ProvNov race will be the first race of the day on Sunday. It's open to all yellow shirt riders. It will be grided in groups HW/MW/LW. No points or championship will be awarded. When the shirt is gone you can't enter the class anymore. The entry fee should be fixed at $35.00.

Walter Walker
11-16-2005, 02:04 PM
This is not something the BOD just came up with. The CMRA had this policy for years. We got away from it when the entries were low. Now that we no longer have that problem the BOD brought it back. With the ProvNov race back in those that still have to finish there 2 races only stand to miss one 4 hour endurance.

The ProvNov race will be the first race of the day on Sunday. It's open to all yellow shirt riders. It will be grided in groups HW/MW/LW. No points or championship will be awarded. When the shirt is gone you can't enter the class anymore. The entry fee should be fixed at $35.00.

Igal
11-16-2005, 02:05 PM
i agree with russels point completely... i posted on another thread pointing this out. at the end of the day, thats the real issue we are causing.. forget all the other whiny baby stuff, we may be cutting some of the growth of the club by taking away that easy entry into the club.

by far the most economical way to come into the club is via endurance, thats where riders can test the waters for the least cost, before they dive in fully into investing in a sprint bike and all the requirements to support a sunday race program.

a new rider can jump on a team who will teach them the system, they pay their split of entry/tires/fuel and a deposit on a bike or even split cost of a bike and get into racing for less than $300 a weekend versus Joe CMRA who sprints and spends money on entry/tires/fuel/bike/support equipment to the tune of an average $1000 a weekend when its all said and done (and thats a CHEAP estimate)...

thats the big issue

edit for posting while walter was typing... i guess if we arent worried about trying to grow more then it doesnt matter.

Igal
11-16-2005, 02:05 PM
i agree with russels point completely... i posted on another thread pointing this out. at the end of the day, thats the real issue we are causing.. forget all the other whiny baby stuff, we may be cutting some of the growth of the club by taking away that easy entry into the club.

by far the most economical way to come into the club is via endurance, thats where riders can test the waters for the least cost, before they dive in fully into investing in a sprint bike and all the requirements to support a sunday race program.

a new rider can jump on a team who will teach them the system, they pay their split of entry/tires/fuel and a deposit on a bike or even split cost of a bike and get into racing for less than $300 a weekend versus Joe CMRA who sprints and spends money on entry/tires/fuel/bike/support equipment to the tune of an average $1000 a weekend when its all said and done (and thats a CHEAP estimate)...

thats the big issue

edit for posting while walter was typing... i guess if we arent worried about trying to grow more then it doesnt matter.

Walter Walker
11-16-2005, 02:39 PM
That new rider can still do all these things, as soon as he gits rid of that yellow shirt. I wonder if the guys complaining feel like this is some sort of penalty. I see it as just part of the process. Most of us old guys had to do it this way. Come on it's really not that bad. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Come on Febuary, you guys have way to much time on your hands. :p

Walter Walker
11-16-2005, 02:39 PM
That new rider can still do all these things, as soon as he gits rid of that yellow shirt. I wonder if the guys complaining feel like this is some sort of penalty. I see it as just part of the process. Most of us old guys had to do it this way. Come on it's really not that bad. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Come on Febuary, you guys have way to much time on your hands. :p

William Guthrie
11-16-2005, 02:58 PM
NPR is the first weekend of the year with endurance. Not a good idea of having a non-experienced racer on a new track with a bunch of experts. I guess it's fair to say that for any track with any yellow shirt. Good call.

William Guthrie
11-16-2005, 02:58 PM
NPR is the first weekend of the year with endurance. Not a good idea of having a non-experienced racer on a new track with a bunch of experts. I guess it's fair to say that for any track with any yellow shirt. Good call.

2SlowButTryin
11-16-2005, 03:29 PM
I understand about a new track such as NPR... but how do you get rid of the Yellow? SPRINT. How do you sprint. Buy a bike. BIG $$$$
I had the $$$ to jump in so it's ok. Alot of people don't or don't want to invest thousands to "Try it out"... I'm just thinkin' about the guys in the stands at the events. They think it's kewl and wanna try it out...

Wait... Epiphany. You can do track days on a street bike... Bring your street baby to the track and see how the track works. Then make a judgement call about buying a race bike.
My entire arguement just caved.
I'm finished.

IS IT FEBUARY YET?!?!?!?!??

2SlowButTryin
11-16-2005, 03:29 PM
I understand about a new track such as NPR... but how do you get rid of the Yellow? SPRINT. How do you sprint. Buy a bike. BIG $$$$
I had the $$$ to jump in so it's ok. Alot of people don't or don't want to invest thousands to "Try it out"... I'm just thinkin' about the guys in the stands at the events. They think it's kewl and wanna try it out...

Wait... Epiphany. You can do track days on a street bike... Bring your street baby to the track and see how the track works. Then make a judgement call about buying a race bike.
My entire arguement just caved.
I'm finished.

IS IT FEBUARY YET?!?!?!?!??

Igal
11-16-2005, 03:36 PM
i give up too russel! screw the new guys let them go buy sprint bikes!!

i already got rid of my shirt a lonnnnng time ago...

Igal
11-16-2005, 03:36 PM
i give up too russel! screw the new guys let them go buy sprint bikes!!

i already got rid of my shirt a lonnnnng time ago...

Walter Walker
11-16-2005, 03:44 PM
You people just have to much money. I remember when some guys would ride there bike to the track, pull the lights and mirrors, race and then ride it home. You can't tell me that every new rider goes out and buys a new bike, warmers, and so on to take the riders school. Most convert there street bikes to start out. I know I did.

Walter Walker
11-16-2005, 03:44 PM
You people just have to much money. I remember when some guys would ride there bike to the track, pull the lights and mirrors, race and then ride it home. You can't tell me that every new rider goes out and buys a new bike, warmers, and so on to take the riders school. Most convert there street bikes to start out. I know I did.

11-16-2005, 03:53 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Russel Green # 734:
but how do you get rid of the Yellow? SPRINT. How do you sprint. Buy a bike. BIG $$$$
I had the $$$ to jump in so it's ok. Alot of people don't or don't want to invest thousands to "Try it out"... I'm just thinkin' about the guys in the stands at the events. They think it's kewl and wanna try it out...</div></div>I don't think people who've never been on the track should "try it out" by going and jumping on an endurance team. Don't you think they should have a little more invested in the sport (like track time at trackdays, money, etc...) before they just jump out there and crash into one of us (or you)? I don't think it's unreasonable to require prov-novs to gain some experience before just jumping into an endurance race... especially if they don't have sense enough to gain this experience ahead of time by doing some trackdays...

11-16-2005, 03:53 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Russel Green # 734:
but how do you get rid of the Yellow? SPRINT. How do you sprint. Buy a bike. BIG $$$$
I had the $$$ to jump in so it's ok. Alot of people don't or don't want to invest thousands to "Try it out"... I'm just thinkin' about the guys in the stands at the events. They think it's kewl and wanna try it out...</div></div>I don't think people who've never been on the track should "try it out" by going and jumping on an endurance team. Don't you think they should have a little more invested in the sport (like track time at trackdays, money, etc...) before they just jump out there and crash into one of us (or you)? I don't think it's unreasonable to require prov-novs to gain some experience before just jumping into an endurance race... especially if they don't have sense enough to gain this experience ahead of time by doing some trackdays...

2SlowButTryin
11-16-2005, 04:37 PM
FYI. the only reason I had enough $$$ buy a bike was I totaled my street bike and decided to chase a dream and retire from the street scene for a while.

The only problem with the idea of converting a street bike is 1. Safety wire. That's alot of holes to drill and it scares street riders away from buying it when your done . 2. BODYWORK. We have to have a catchpan/lower so a street R6 wouldn't pass. Bodywork is $500-600 for just the upper and lower, no tail.

I agree you should get alot of track days in before you jump into a race. I didn't, lol. but it all worked out. But on that note, there is a HUGE difference from a trackday to a race weekend.

Bigger ?, are Yellowshirts allowed to endurance minis?

2SlowButTryin
11-16-2005, 04:37 PM
FYI. the only reason I had enough $$$ buy a bike was I totaled my street bike and decided to chase a dream and retire from the street scene for a while.

The only problem with the idea of converting a street bike is 1. Safety wire. That's alot of holes to drill and it scares street riders away from buying it when your done . 2. BODYWORK. We have to have a catchpan/lower so a street R6 wouldn't pass. Bodywork is $500-600 for just the upper and lower, no tail.

I agree you should get alot of track days in before you jump into a race. I didn't, lol. but it all worked out. But on that note, there is a HUGE difference from a trackday to a race weekend.

Bigger ?, are Yellowshirts allowed to endurance minis?

Brad Thomas
11-16-2005, 05:21 PM
if some team is willing to let you ride their bike in an endurance race, I don't know why they would have a problem with you running a few Prov-Nov races on that bike with some scrub tires.

Brad Thomas
11-16-2005, 05:21 PM
if some team is willing to let you ride their bike in an endurance race, I don't know why they would have a problem with you running a few Prov-Nov races on that bike with some scrub tires.

Dirk Anderson
11-16-2005, 09:13 PM
Prov-Nov's quit whining!

You can rent a bike from me to sprint. You pay for the rental and leave a crash deposit. Gas, tires, warmers, numbers etc. are your responsibility.

1st bike available for next season is a 2001 SV650.

I will have more bikes available for rent before february. Contact me via email if you are interested.

Dirk Anderson
11-16-2005, 09:13 PM
Prov-Nov's quit whining!

You can rent a bike from me to sprint. You pay for the rental and leave a crash deposit. Gas, tires, warmers, numbers etc. are your responsibility.

1st bike available for next season is a 2001 SV650.

I will have more bikes available for rent before february. Contact me via email if you are interested.

Executioner
11-17-2005, 09:17 AM
Walter, here's some food for thought (and BTW, I am one of the guys you just pulled the rug out under from):

At the 6h endurance at TWS in July this year, "Team Impulsive Riders" made up mainly if not solely of ProvNovs managed to finish 3rd in their class (C-Superbike) and 15th overall. Now tell me these guys were NOT ready for endurance racing! Incidentally it's the same guys I'm trying to hook up a ride with next year and no I can't do the season opener at NPR.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Prov-Nov's quit whining </div></div>Oh and Dirk, it's not about not having a bike or the dough to do a sprint, it's about not being allowed to do an endurance. You're missing the point!

I bet you that if all the guys now racing & enjoying endurance were affected, they'd complain as well. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

Executioner
11-17-2005, 09:17 AM
Walter, here's some food for thought (and BTW, I am one of the guys you just pulled the rug out under from):

At the 6h endurance at TWS in July this year, "Team Impulsive Riders" made up mainly if not solely of ProvNovs managed to finish 3rd in their class (C-Superbike) and 15th overall. Now tell me these guys were NOT ready for endurance racing! Incidentally it's the same guys I'm trying to hook up a ride with next year and no I can't do the season opener at NPR.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Prov-Nov's quit whining </div></div>Oh and Dirk, it's not about not having a bike or the dough to do a sprint, it's about not being allowed to do an endurance. You're missing the point!

I bet you that if all the guys now racing & enjoying endurance were affected, they'd complain as well. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

Dirk Anderson
11-17-2005, 05:48 PM
No Patrick,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh and Dirk, it's not about not having a bike or the dough to do a sprint, it's about not being allowed to do an endurance. You're missing the point!
</div></div>Your missing the point!
THE BOD HAVE ALREADY SET THE RULE FOR 2006.

Its one freakin endurance race for God's sake. Follow the procedure like everyone else. Loose your yellow shirt and go race.

If you don't have a bike to sprint on to loose your yellow shirt I'll be more than glad to help you out.

Dirk Anderson
11-17-2005, 05:48 PM
No Patrick,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh and Dirk, it's not about not having a bike or the dough to do a sprint, it's about not being allowed to do an endurance. You're missing the point!
</div></div>Your missing the point!
THE BOD HAVE ALREADY SET THE RULE FOR 2006.

Its one freakin endurance race for God's sake. Follow the procedure like everyone else. Loose your yellow shirt and go race.

If you don't have a bike to sprint on to loose your yellow shirt I'll be more than glad to help you out.

Travis Pierce
11-17-2005, 06:36 PM
Dirk quit cryin, sounds to me like your scared of a little competition. :-)

Travis Pierce
11-17-2005, 06:36 PM
Dirk quit cryin, sounds to me like your scared of a little competition. :-)

Jason Keene
11-17-2005, 07:02 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Patrick Stohrer:

At the 6h endurance at TWS in July this year, "Team Impulsive Riders" made up mainly if not solely of ProvNovs managed to finish 3rd in their class (C-Superbike) and 15th overall. Now tell me these guys were NOT ready for endurance racing! </div></div>Nice try... I'll give it to you for making the race to the end, HOWEVER; if you choose to fall back on this accomplishment as facts to be considered for reconsidering the rule, I feel obligated to point out that you were handed that 3rd place...

I know of two teams that didn't make the cut because they were crashed out by a Prov Nov rider. And if need be I'll ring the bell due to a mechanical for my TEAM. We missed 1.5 hours of the race due to a mechanical and based on the times Impulsive pulled at TWS they would have been lapped by my team 9 times if we only excersised times applied by an average of our riders.

I understand your not happy about the rule... I will suggest you reconsider trying to pull a rabbit out of your hat.

As a side note... I would like to say that one of Impulsive's riders is a good friend of mine and I mean no disrespect to him...

Jason Keene
11-17-2005, 07:02 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Patrick Stohrer:

At the 6h endurance at TWS in July this year, "Team Impulsive Riders" made up mainly if not solely of ProvNovs managed to finish 3rd in their class (C-Superbike) and 15th overall. Now tell me these guys were NOT ready for endurance racing! </div></div>Nice try... I'll give it to you for making the race to the end, HOWEVER; if you choose to fall back on this accomplishment as facts to be considered for reconsidering the rule, I feel obligated to point out that you were handed that 3rd place...

I know of two teams that didn't make the cut because they were crashed out by a Prov Nov rider. And if need be I'll ring the bell due to a mechanical for my TEAM. We missed 1.5 hours of the race due to a mechanical and based on the times Impulsive pulled at TWS they would have been lapped by my team 9 times if we only excersised times applied by an average of our riders.

I understand your not happy about the rule... I will suggest you reconsider trying to pull a rabbit out of your hat.

As a side note... I would like to say that one of Impulsive's riders is a good friend of mine and I mean no disrespect to him...

2SlowButTryin
11-18-2005, 02:59 AM
The same could be said for "Yellow Shirt Racing" at the last TWS endurance. 22 of 47 overal and 6 of 15 in SuperStock C. We would've had 3rd in SuperBike C. We were ALL yellow shirts. To the best of my knowledge we didn't have any incidents or even near incidents. We tried to run things in a profesional manner and consistent on the race track. I just don't like people making blanket statements that aren't true. Ok. So maybe some yellow shirts shouldn't be allow to endurance. Maybe even MOST... but All is a big word. But that's the way it is so that's the way it will be.... LETS RACE!!!!!

2SlowButTryin
11-18-2005, 02:59 AM
The same could be said for "Yellow Shirt Racing" at the last TWS endurance. 22 of 47 overal and 6 of 15 in SuperStock C. We would've had 3rd in SuperBike C. We were ALL yellow shirts. To the best of my knowledge we didn't have any incidents or even near incidents. We tried to run things in a profesional manner and consistent on the race track. I just don't like people making blanket statements that aren't true. Ok. So maybe some yellow shirts shouldn't be allow to endurance. Maybe even MOST... but All is a big word. But that's the way it is so that's the way it will be.... LETS RACE!!!!!

11-18-2005, 08:29 AM
more ammo for you Jason... speaking of that 6hr at TWS in July, in the different classes, we would have been:
2nd in Superbike C
3rd in Superstock C
4th in Superstock A
4th in Formula 1

this is on a stock motored SV650, and we're not THAT fast, so I think that race might have been a little atypical

11-18-2005, 08:29 AM
more ammo for you Jason... speaking of that 6hr at TWS in July, in the different classes, we would have been:
2nd in Superbike C
3rd in Superstock C
4th in Superstock A
4th in Formula 1

this is on a stock motored SV650, and we're not THAT fast, so I think that race might have been a little atypical

Igal
11-18-2005, 08:35 AM
bring back the RRC!!!

oops wrong thread...

Igal
11-18-2005, 08:35 AM
bring back the RRC!!!

oops wrong thread...

Executioner
11-18-2005, 08:58 PM
Dirk,

thanks but no thanks! My rides include two CBR600RR's, an R6, an RGV250, and a TTR250, and guess what? They're all paid for.

See you at NPR...

Executioner
11-18-2005, 08:58 PM
Dirk,

thanks but no thanks! My rides include two CBR600RR's, an R6, an RGV250, and a TTR250, and guess what? They're all paid for.

See you at NPR...

Tom Anderson
11-18-2005, 11:12 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Patrick Stohrer:
Dirk,

thanks but no thanks! My rides include two CBR600RR's, an R6, an RGV250, and a TTR250, and guess what? They're all paid for.

See you at NPR... </div></div>*Church Lady voice*

Well now, isn't that special?

*end Church Lady voice*

Rules are rules, we all elected the BoD, and even with your stable of bikes and endless wealth, you aren't going to change those facts.

If you make all of the rounds except round 1 (a 4 hour) you still have a good shot at a very respectable 1st year endurance season if your team finishes every race and is able to turn respectable lap times.

Do a search for threads on endurance racing problems with provisional novices. There are threads with multiple pages describing problems with provisional novices in the races.

The rules can not make concessions for one or two people with "special" circumstances, because EVERYONE will come up with their own special circumstances.

Tom Anderson
11-18-2005, 11:12 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Patrick Stohrer:
Dirk,

thanks but no thanks! My rides include two CBR600RR's, an R6, an RGV250, and a TTR250, and guess what? They're all paid for.

See you at NPR... </div></div>*Church Lady voice*

Well now, isn't that special?

*end Church Lady voice*

Rules are rules, we all elected the BoD, and even with your stable of bikes and endless wealth, you aren't going to change those facts.

If you make all of the rounds except round 1 (a 4 hour) you still have a good shot at a very respectable 1st year endurance season if your team finishes every race and is able to turn respectable lap times.

Do a search for threads on endurance racing problems with provisional novices. There are threads with multiple pages describing problems with provisional novices in the races.

The rules can not make concessions for one or two people with "special" circumstances, because EVERYONE will come up with their own special circumstances.

Tim Johnson
11-19-2005, 09:45 PM
I'm getting a kick out of reading this *** for tat,but I do have a question for Walter and I'm in a bit of a jam with this rule change.

Hey Walter if a racer has a current Pro competition license. Number 1 racer has an AMA MX Pro Lic. and number 2 racer has an NHRA/HDRA Pro Lic.Please keep in mind both have attended a track day or two in 05. Will they have a status as a Prov Nov or with their Pro racing experience come on as Novice racers?
Doing the riders school and book work is an understandable necessity.

Question 2: Does this Endurance Rule include the Mini Endurance Division?

Question 3: Will CMRA except a racer who is licensed by the TMGP Sanction Body and or does this racer have to do a CMRA riders school and have a Prov Nov status or be issued a Novice license?
I'am in the process of building a BB team and a Mini team.I did not mention racer #3 of the BB team.He is also a very experienced racing Flat tracks in the Mid-west.Also having held an AMA Pro Lic.,but it has been a dozen years.This racer has no problem with the Prov Nov issue.We can muster up a sprint bike for him. But if I'am faced with the whole team requiring two sprint dates. I might have to go knocking on Dirk garage for spare bikes so these gentleman can go racing.

Please clarify regarding this situation.Thank you.TJ.

Tim Johnson
11-19-2005, 09:45 PM
I'm getting a kick out of reading this *** for tat,but I do have a question for Walter and I'm in a bit of a jam with this rule change.

Hey Walter if a racer has a current Pro competition license. Number 1 racer has an AMA MX Pro Lic. and number 2 racer has an NHRA/HDRA Pro Lic.Please keep in mind both have attended a track day or two in 05. Will they have a status as a Prov Nov or with their Pro racing experience come on as Novice racers?
Doing the riders school and book work is an understandable necessity.

Question 2: Does this Endurance Rule include the Mini Endurance Division?

Question 3: Will CMRA except a racer who is licensed by the TMGP Sanction Body and or does this racer have to do a CMRA riders school and have a Prov Nov status or be issued a Novice license?
I'am in the process of building a BB team and a Mini team.I did not mention racer #3 of the BB team.He is also a very experienced racing Flat tracks in the Mid-west.Also having held an AMA Pro Lic.,but it has been a dozen years.This racer has no problem with the Prov Nov issue.We can muster up a sprint bike for him. But if I'am faced with the whole team requiring two sprint dates. I might have to go knocking on Dirk garage for spare bikes so these gentleman can go racing.

Please clarify regarding this situation.Thank you.TJ.

Walter Walker
11-20-2005, 12:15 AM
Ok,
#1 I would need to talk to both riders before I could make a decision.
#2 No
#3 Yes/Will have to take the written test./Will have the same ststus they have with the TMGP.

Give me a call and we can talk about this a little more.

Walter Walker
11-20-2005, 12:15 AM
Ok,
#1 I would need to talk to both riders before I could make a decision.
#2 No
#3 Yes/Will have to take the written test./Will have the same ststus they have with the TMGP.

Give me a call and we can talk about this a little more.

Dirk Anderson
11-21-2005, 09:23 AM
OK Patrick. So, you miss the point completely, you have a stable of bikes:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks but no thanks! My rides include two CBR600RR's, an R6, an RGV250, and a TTR250, and guess what? They're all paid for.
</div></div>and your still whining like a little *****.

I think its time for you to put your tail between your legs and give it up.

Dirk Anderson
11-21-2005, 09:23 AM
OK Patrick. So, you miss the point completely, you have a stable of bikes:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks but no thanks! My rides include two CBR600RR's, an R6, an RGV250, and a TTR250, and guess what? They're all paid for.
</div></div>and your still whining like a little *****.

I think its time for you to put your tail between your legs and give it up.

Executioner
11-21-2005, 11:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> your still whining like a little ***** </div></div>Dirk,

maybe you should watch your language... I never attacked or insulted you personally, my goal is not to make enemies but friends instead. Seems like you're a little jealous. Why don't you just STFU and stop posting here, since you're not affected...

Executioner
11-21-2005, 11:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> your still whining like a little ***** </div></div>Dirk,

maybe you should watch your language... I never attacked or insulted you personally, my goal is not to make enemies but friends instead. Seems like you're a little jealous. Why don't you just STFU and stop posting here, since you're not affected...

David Milner
11-21-2005, 07:23 PM
Could the Admins lock one of these threads? I get easily confused.

and Dirk, I have a bike (and after I figure out what's wrong with the FI, then I can ride it and make Buck happy) but the cost of licensing alone went from 75 to close to 200. yea, given unlimited fundage, I could get my license before the first NPR event and race the prov nov race, then race the second OHR event, then have shed of my yellow by the TWS event. While the cost of the 10 minute race is comparable to one hour of endurance, I get 10 min instead of one hour.

You're willing to rent a bike to anyone that doesn't have one to sprint. Are you willing to subsidize fees for taking the LSTD course by those that already have a bike?

The rules are what the rules are, and like anyone else, I will follow them. This doesn't mean I agree with them, doesn't mean that I like them, it means that I will follow them. I trust our BOD to make decisions that are good for the club. They have far more years of experience than I do and are more qualified to make these calls.

I stand by my BOD and my club and whatever has to happen, happens. In reading all of the posts, I have to agree with Walter when he said that the bulk of the people argueing the rule are the ones not affected by it.

If you are so opposed to it, then sponsor a prov nov and pay their fees to shed the yellow and race endurance.

We can all sit here and whine about it, but at the end of the day, the rule stands, and we are governed by it.

Just my .02. And as a side note, I would hazard a guess that NO ONE wants Walter's job or the BOD on these decisions.

Let's sort it out on the grid.

David

David Milner
11-21-2005, 07:23 PM
Could the Admins lock one of these threads? I get easily confused.

and Dirk, I have a bike (and after I figure out what's wrong with the FI, then I can ride it and make Buck happy) but the cost of licensing alone went from 75 to close to 200. yea, given unlimited fundage, I could get my license before the first NPR event and race the prov nov race, then race the second OHR event, then have shed of my yellow by the TWS event. While the cost of the 10 minute race is comparable to one hour of endurance, I get 10 min instead of one hour.

You're willing to rent a bike to anyone that doesn't have one to sprint. Are you willing to subsidize fees for taking the LSTD course by those that already have a bike?

The rules are what the rules are, and like anyone else, I will follow them. This doesn't mean I agree with them, doesn't mean that I like them, it means that I will follow them. I trust our BOD to make decisions that are good for the club. They have far more years of experience than I do and are more qualified to make these calls.

I stand by my BOD and my club and whatever has to happen, happens. In reading all of the posts, I have to agree with Walter when he said that the bulk of the people argueing the rule are the ones not affected by it.

If you are so opposed to it, then sponsor a prov nov and pay their fees to shed the yellow and race endurance.

We can all sit here and whine about it, but at the end of the day, the rule stands, and we are governed by it.

Just my .02. And as a side note, I would hazard a guess that NO ONE wants Walter's job or the BOD on these decisions.

Let's sort it out on the grid.

David

David Branyon
11-25-2005, 11:25 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by David Milner:
Could the Admins lock one of these threads? I get easily confused.
</div></div>Agreed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In reading all of the posts, I have to agree with Walter when he said that the bulk of the people argueing the rule are the ones not affected by it.

If you are so opposed to it, then sponsor a prov nov and pay their fees to shed the yellow and race endurance.
</div></div>Well I guess I'll take that as a compliment from you and Walter. I am glad that you have recognized that we have concern for people on the planet other than ourselves occasionally. If we see something that we perceive as unfair to the minority, should we not step up and try to right the wrong? I think we should and am therefore trying to help out the tiny minority that would be affected by this rule. I think that's a good thing, so thanks. Otherwise, we could just make a rule outlawing all left-handed racers and if everyone only looks out for themselves, that minority would be eliminated. I wouldn't be offended if a few righties stepped up for me (lefty) in that case! And there are a lot more lefties than there are yellow-shirt novice teams.

I don't really understand how my standing up for the prov-novs rights now makes me indebted to them (to pay their way). You seem irritated by my trying to "help" the affected ones. If so, say the word and I'll try to shut up the next time I perceive that you are getting the short end of the stick. Sorry. (No good deed goes unpunished.)

And I agree, we'll all go by the rules and live with however it comes out and I agree that the BOD and Walter & Co. are doing a great job. That doesn't mean I won't speak up when I think something should be handled in a different way, but I will always try to do it with decency and class and w/o personal attacks.

Thanks everyone!

David Branyon
11-25-2005, 11:25 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by David Milner:
Could the Admins lock one of these threads? I get easily confused.
</div></div>Agreed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In reading all of the posts, I have to agree with Walter when he said that the bulk of the people argueing the rule are the ones not affected by it.

If you are so opposed to it, then sponsor a prov nov and pay their fees to shed the yellow and race endurance.
</div></div>Well I guess I'll take that as a compliment from you and Walter. I am glad that you have recognized that we have concern for people on the planet other than ourselves occasionally. If we see something that we perceive as unfair to the minority, should we not step up and try to right the wrong? I think we should and am therefore trying to help out the tiny minority that would be affected by this rule. I think that's a good thing, so thanks. Otherwise, we could just make a rule outlawing all left-handed racers and if everyone only looks out for themselves, that minority would be eliminated. I wouldn't be offended if a few righties stepped up for me (lefty) in that case! And there are a lot more lefties than there are yellow-shirt novice teams.

I don't really understand how my standing up for the prov-novs rights now makes me indebted to them (to pay their way). You seem irritated by my trying to "help" the affected ones. If so, say the word and I'll try to shut up the next time I perceive that you are getting the short end of the stick. Sorry. (No good deed goes unpunished.)

And I agree, we'll all go by the rules and live with however it comes out and I agree that the BOD and Walter & Co. are doing a great job. That doesn't mean I won't speak up when I think something should be handled in a different way, but I will always try to do it with decency and class and w/o personal attacks.

Thanks everyone!

David Milner
11-26-2005, 07:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I guess I'll take that as a compliment from you and Walter. I am glad that you have recognized that we have concern for people on the planet other than ourselves occasionally. If we see something that we perceive as unfair to the minority, should we not step up and try to right the wrong? I think we should and am therefore trying to help out the tiny minority that would be affected by this rule. I think that's a good thing, so thanks. </div></div>I'm part of that tiny minority

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Otherwise, we could just make a rule outlawing all left-handed racers and if everyone only looks out for themselves, that minority would be eliminated. I wouldn't be offended if a few righties stepped up for me (lefty) in that case! And there are a lot more lefties than there are yellow-shirt novice teams.</div></div>that's just plain silly, funny, but silly. I would stand up for lefties (my wife being one of them)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't really understand how my standing up for the prov-novs rights now makes me indebted to them (to pay their way). You seem irritated by my trying to "help" the affected ones. </div></div>I am one of the affected ones, and no, wasn't meant to say that you are indebted to us, but merely, since cost is the biggest change in the equation, that if you feel so strongly, then help a brother out /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Most of the novice (non yellow shirt) riders that I've talked to would have welcomed an outline like this.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If so, say the word and I'll try to shut up the next time I perceive that you are getting the short end of the stick. Sorry. (No good deed goes unpunished.)</div></div>By all means, don't. Giving a voice to the silent minority isn't a bad thing. If you're chosen to give that voice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And I agree, we'll all go by the rules and live with however it comes out and I agree that the BOD and Walter & Co. are doing a great job.</div></div>Something we both whole heartedly agree on.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That doesn't mean I won't speak up when I think something should be handled in a different way, but I will always try to do it with decency and class and w/o personal attacks.</div></div>And no one would expect otherwise. I apologize if my comments seemed to be directed at you personally.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks everyone!</div></div>Like all things, this too shall pass

David Milner
11-26-2005, 07:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I guess I'll take that as a compliment from you and Walter. I am glad that you have recognized that we have concern for people on the planet other than ourselves occasionally. If we see something that we perceive as unfair to the minority, should we not step up and try to right the wrong? I think we should and am therefore trying to help out the tiny minority that would be affected by this rule. I think that's a good thing, so thanks. </div></div>I'm part of that tiny minority

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Otherwise, we could just make a rule outlawing all left-handed racers and if everyone only looks out for themselves, that minority would be eliminated. I wouldn't be offended if a few righties stepped up for me (lefty) in that case! And there are a lot more lefties than there are yellow-shirt novice teams.</div></div>that's just plain silly, funny, but silly. I would stand up for lefties (my wife being one of them)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't really understand how my standing up for the prov-novs rights now makes me indebted to them (to pay their way). You seem irritated by my trying to "help" the affected ones. </div></div>I am one of the affected ones, and no, wasn't meant to say that you are indebted to us, but merely, since cost is the biggest change in the equation, that if you feel so strongly, then help a brother out /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Most of the novice (non yellow shirt) riders that I've talked to would have welcomed an outline like this.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If so, say the word and I'll try to shut up the next time I perceive that you are getting the short end of the stick. Sorry. (No good deed goes unpunished.)</div></div>By all means, don't. Giving a voice to the silent minority isn't a bad thing. If you're chosen to give that voice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And I agree, we'll all go by the rules and live with however it comes out and I agree that the BOD and Walter & Co. are doing a great job.</div></div>Something we both whole heartedly agree on.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That doesn't mean I won't speak up when I think something should be handled in a different way, but I will always try to do it with decency and class and w/o personal attacks.</div></div>And no one would expect otherwise. I apologize if my comments seemed to be directed at you personally.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks everyone!</div></div>Like all things, this too shall pass