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Travis Pierce
06-08-2003, 07:03 PM
Where do you find them? Looking for some for an X9 or RF Series Shoei. Thanks

Bob Cronin
06-08-2003, 07:12 PM
Are they legal in endurance?

waytooslow
06-08-2003, 07:53 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bob Cronin:
Are they legal in endurance?</div></div>did a search no mention in rules, unless someone else know something --- looks legal to me

Travis Pierce
06-08-2003, 08:01 PM
I couldn't think of any reason why they wouldn't be legal. I would consider it a safety issue. If you can't see, you can't ride, and I always seem to get the big damn beetle smack me right in the center of the shield and smear everywhere. hahaha

06-08-2003, 08:37 PM
tear offs have been blamed for crashes before.
there has been instances where it was believed that a rider lost the front end because of sliding on a tear off and i remember someone crashing because a tear off got in-between there brake pads and their rotors.

Bob Cronin
06-08-2003, 08:57 PM
In no way am I trying to start a club thing here. The WERA & CMRA rulebooks are very close on most issues so I am going to compare the two.
In WERA the rulebook states that they can be worn and only taken off on straight areas. Their rulebook is also found of stating that "..if it doesn't say that you can do something, assume that you cannot..". My guess is that the same may apply to CMRA in this regard.
You know if you kept your head down you wouldn't get as many bugs!

E. Templet
06-08-2003, 09:15 PM
If the BOD acts quickly we may be able to head this off at the pass.

It sure would be interesting contacting one of those things in turn 8 at TWS. Air fence here I come /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif ...hopefully.

Please reconsider this.

cedestech
06-08-2003, 09:19 PM
I have to call BS on crashing on tear-offs.

ALL ama riders use them. I have never seen a AMA guy crash on a tear-off.

And the brake pad thing is so 100% crap it hurts.

Very simple physic's show that a .25mm thick piece of vinyl caught between a pad and a spinning rotor then having 1000+ psi applied
will shred it into oblivion in about 1/100 of a
second at any speed above 2 mph.

I geuss the same people crashing and having there
brakes jamned with tear-offs are the same ones
who can't install clip master links and let their
6 year old play on a pit bike unsupervised.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

ysr612
06-08-2003, 10:04 PM
I was told many years ago that they got on radiators. The old rule book it was said no tear off the new one makes no mention.

Chuck Ergle
06-08-2003, 10:09 PM
Tear offs are legal. The CCS rulebook reads in such a way that, unless an item is specifically excluded, then it is legal. Tear offs are not specifically excluded, therefore, they are legal. I wear them when I endurance race (except that my new Arai Corsair doesn't have tear off posts on the face shield, so I'm hoping an RR-3 or RR-4 shield will fit). I am with Emmitt in that all the world championship serieses allow them, and I don't think anybody has crashed on one (most tear offs are pulled on straights, and generally blow off the racing surface within a couple of laps). Such a small percentage of club racers wear them that crashing on one would be even less of a problem than it is now.

IMHO!!

Travis Pierce
06-08-2003, 10:35 PM
Ok, we have the legality of it decided, but can anybody tell me where to get them?

Also do you have to put the posts on a shield or do you purchase a shield with posts already installed?

Never used them and thought I would try them.

cedestech
06-08-2003, 10:45 PM
Try dirt roundy round suppliers.

If you pay attention to several AMA riders they don't have tear=off postes but attach them with
small pieces of tape.

Travis Pierce
06-08-2003, 10:49 PM
Ya Emmett, I have seen it both ways but wasn't sure on the best way to apply them. I have been searching on the net, but as of yet haven't had any luck. So I thought I would try here.

Thanks for all the input.

06-08-2003, 11:22 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Emmett Dibble:
I have to call BS on crashing on tear-offs.

ALL ama riders use them. I have never seen a AMA guy crash on a tear-off.

And the brake pad thing is so 100% crap it hurts.

Very simple physic's show that a .25mm thick piece of vinyl caught between a pad and a spinning rotor then having 1000+ psi applied
will shred it into oblivion in about 1/100 of a
second at any speed above 2 mph.

I geuss the same people crashing and having there
brakes jamned with tear-offs are the same ones
who can't install clip master links and let their
6 year old play on a pit bike unsupervised.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif </div></div>very simple physics shows that if you are riding at a high level and are pushing the bike to the very edge that any added variable could put you on your head.

Walter Walker
06-09-2003, 12:23 AM
Travis,
The brand that I use is called Ultra Shield Tear Aways. They cost about $6.00 for a pack of 20. I bought the buttons and mounted them on my shield myself. All you have to do is drill a small hole. The buttons come with a screw that screws into the back of it. The buttons cost like $3.00. The shop where I work stocks them. Don't ask me where we get them, because I don't know. I'm just the Service Mgr. and not in charge of the ordering. If you need some, I can bring them to the track on Friday.

Travis Pierce
06-09-2003, 09:25 AM
Walter, Check your email.

David Branyon
06-09-2003, 09:31 AM
Only comment is that the last time I went to buy a shield for my Arai, they said the shield was some outrageous price ($65?) and part of their excuse was because it has the posts for tear-offs (which is of course, a very popular item that the majority of motorcyclists in the world would desire for their streetbikes). So, I think the shields are surely available at least for Arais. This was from a regular motorcycle dealer. I didn't ask whether they had the actual tear off plastic thingies.

Van Blaylock
06-09-2003, 04:10 PM
chuckie,all up to date arai's use the same shield so any quantam, signet, Rx etc will interchange.

van

06-09-2003, 04:40 PM
i have a tear off shield for an arai if anyone is interested.
e-mail me off line and we can set something up.

DeCell
06-09-2003, 05:14 PM
This same thread came up on this board a year or two ago. Tear-offs were said to be prohibited at that time.

Walter Walker
06-09-2003, 05:59 PM
Tear-offs are legal. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Jeff6R
06-09-2003, 06:30 PM
High end AGV helmets come with a clear shield with posts and a 5 pack of tear offs. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

E. Templet
06-09-2003, 07:51 PM
So if every racer in an endurance race used tear-offs once an hour, with 50 teams in a 6 our race, that would be uhhhhh..... 300 tear-offs. (what's legal is legal for everyone)

What's the chance of just one of these getting where it doesn't belong? Could someone crash, get hurt, or even die as a result?

Are tear-offs biodegradeable? Who collects them after the races?

Would a race track owner approve a debris left on his race track that is not removed after the races? (now this one would be quite interesting to persue) /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Does the CMRA insurance underwriters know that we can throw slippery stuff on the racetrack whenever we feel the need?

What are the AMA procedures concerning tear-offs? Do they leave them on the track or do corner workers go get them, during, or after the races?

Was this rule ever changed to disallow the use of tear-offs. If so, why? If so, why are we going backwards? Have these things been made safer somehow?

Come one, let's play.

Jeff6R
06-09-2003, 09:05 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would a race track owner approve a debris left on his race track that is not removed after the races? </div></div>Uh.. reference the load of metal debris that had to be picked up before the Ridesmart trackday @ TWS. I don't think the track owner has any thing reasonable to say about that. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Chuck Ergle
06-09-2003, 10:15 PM
In all the time I've been racing, and perhaps before, I've NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE CRASHING ON SOMEONE'S TEAR OFF. Track owners haven't cared in the past. Insurance companies don't care. I've been using tear offs for a couple of years, and have yet to tear one off (it's kindof like rain tires--buy a set and it won't rain the entire time you own them). You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Worry about irresponsible pit bike use more.

Eric Kelcher
06-09-2003, 10:37 PM
On the crashing on tear-off it might be confused with my nasty slide on number plate in turn 1 at TWS back in 98.

The last time this arguement came up was when we independent in 99 and I was a proponent against them at the time. Since they have been legal there has not been a litter of them on the track which was a concern in fact I can only remember seeing a few ever blowing around. As far as degrading they get mulched pretty good by the mowers.

Keith Hertell
06-09-2003, 11:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Eric Kelcher:
On the crashing on tear-off it might be confused with my nasty slide on number plate in turn 1 at TWS back in 98.

The last time this arguement came up was when we independent in 99 and I was a proponent against them at the time. Since they have been legal there has not been a litter of them on the track which was a concern in fact I can only remember seeing a few ever blowing around. As far as degrading they get mulched pretty good by the mowers.</div></div>I remember that Marcus. But it didn't turn out the way you thought it would. I was a little worried that EVERYONE would be using them for NO reason.

E. Templet
06-10-2003, 12:46 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Chuck Ergle:
In all the time I've been racing, and perhaps before, I've NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE CRASHING ON SOMEONE'S TEAR OFF. Track owners haven't cared in the past. Insurance companies don't care. I've been using tear offs for a couple of years, and have yet to tear one off (it's kindof like rain tires--buy a set and it won't rain the entire time you own them). You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Worry about irresponsible pit bike use more.</div></div>Another fact filled post by Mr. congeniality. And look some of it is even on topic. Chocked full of data based facts to...Becuase ah said so that's why. :rolleyes:

I'm just asking questions dude. If you dont have the answers, find them or don't post a reply concerning them. I'd like to feel safe on the track, and I'd like to make/keep the track as safe as possible. That's what I'm about. Simple and honest, without condecending sarcasm.

Rich Desmond
06-10-2003, 06:41 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Chuck Ergle:
In all the time I've been racing, and perhaps before, I've NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE CRASHING ON SOMEONE'S TEAR OFF...</div></div>Actually, BBoz crashed on one last year at the WSB round at Laguna, on the warm-up lap IIRC.

06-10-2003, 08:11 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Rich Desmond:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Chuck Ergle:
In all the time I've been racing, and perhaps before, I've NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE CRASHING ON SOMEONE'S TEAR OFF...</div></div>Actually, BBoz crashed on one last year at the WSB round at Laguna, on the warm-up lap IIRC.</div></div>thank goodness someone else remembers this.
i was beggining to think i made it up all in my head! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

by the way, are you enjoying your last few days of freedom?

Rich Desmond
06-10-2003, 08:26 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by john w black:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Rich Desmond:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Chuck Ergle:
In all the time I've been racing, and perhaps before, I've NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE CRASHING ON SOMEONE'S TEAR OFF...</div></div>Actually, BBoz crashed on one last year at the WSB round at Laguna, on the warm-up lap IIRC.</div></div>thank goodness someone else remembers this.
i was beggining to think i made it up all in my head! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

by the way, are you enjoying your last few days of freedom?</div></div>Lessee, about 55 hours left. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Travis Pierce
06-10-2003, 09:52 AM
Well guys, I simply asked a question, I didn't realize that it would create such a dilema.

Ya Rich, I saw the race with BBoz, In fact, I have it on tape. They never proved that he slipped on a tear off, it was suspected though . I have watched it in slow mo about 10 or 15 times and as of yet can't see his front hitting anything to cause it. So it may have been there, it may have not. I just can't see it on the tape. It would be interesting to know if he actually did though.

Hey Gene, if everybody was wearing tearoffs in a race, then it might get to be an issue, but I haven't been to a race yet whether it be WERA, CCS, CMRA, RPM, AMA Superbike, WSB, or even a track day that I have seen every rider have on tear offs, I have seen them but they are a little on the uncommon side. Not everybody uses them. I don't see a mad rush for the whole of the CMRA Endurance series riders to go out and get tear offs just cause somebody said that they were legal. Some agree with them, some don't.

This is beginning to sound like the "They just built a track at so in so" and now half of the riders think it is unsafe because of a blade of grass in the center of the front straight which could cause somebody to go down, the other half say to just go around it. Same scenario, different situation......

SMILEYMAN
06-10-2003, 09:59 AM
Does anyone really need tear offs? Surely you can't hit enough bugs in a sprint race to require them. They are worthless in the rain. And in an endurance I could see you might get a huge bug right in your line of sight, but if you can take the time to tear off a sheet, simply swipe your hand across it while it is still wet!

I used then back in my dirt track racing days and they were useful when someones Mccreary threw a huge horsepile sized red clay blob in your face, but you get used to the small stuff!
Smileyman :rolleyes:

Rich Desmond
06-10-2003, 11:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Travis Pierce:
Ya Rich, I saw the race with BBoz, In fact, I have it on tape. They never proved that he slipped on a tear off, it was suspected though . I have watched it in slow mo about 10 or 15 times and as of yet can't see his front hitting anything to cause it. So it may have been there, it may have not. I just can't see it on the tape. It would be interesting to know if he actually did though.
</div></div>Yeah, no way to know for certain. It sure seemed like he must have hit something to have caused that, he just wasn't going fast enough to crash otherwise. Tear-off seems the most likely explaination to me.

Bob Cronin
06-10-2003, 11:50 AM
"Does anyone really need tear offs? Surely you can't hit enough bugs in a sprint race to require them....And in an endurance I could see you might get a huge bug right in your line of sight, but if you can take the time to tear off a sheet, simply swipe your hand across it while it is still wet!"

Chris-
The example being discussed is for endurance racing. Wipe it off while its wet? When has wiping a wet bug, a bigger one at that, been cleared decent enough to see? If anything it makes it harder to see not better. I hit the wash button on the car screen right when a bug hits. Even with the washer fluid it doesn't go away very well.

Daniel Browning
06-10-2003, 12:14 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Walter Walker:
Tear-offs are legal. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif </div></div>I think walter pretty much closed this thread up a few days ago.. you ladies can settle down now.. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Travis Pierce
06-10-2003, 01:02 PM
Thanks Dan............hahahahahaha

tinman
06-10-2003, 06:35 PM
one time at hitchcock, I know i know mini racer sounding off, we had a pack of bees on the back strait. Very juicy bees, there was no wiping that off with your hand. Hmmmm, tear-offs in the mini class..............

Mathew Wise
06-11-2003, 02:01 PM
I have often thought of wearing a tear off just to keep rocks from chipping up a brand new face shield, expecially at "Rock Hill". /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

E. Templet
06-12-2003, 12:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Travis Pierce:
Well guys, I simply asked a question, I didn't realize that it would create such a dilema.
Hey Gene, if everybody was wearing tearoffs in a race, then it might get to be an issue.....</div></div>Travis, it's more of a moral issue with me than anything. I am my brother's keeper. Using a tear-off and not caring if somebody falls down because of it, is something that I cannot and will not do. I won't take the chance with your safety or anyone elses.

As Chris Smiley said, "Do you really need them anyway?" I can't believe I've agreed with Smiley 2 times now! What the heck is happening to me!? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif