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Harry Tomlinson
11-16-2006, 09:55 PM
Thank you to all who turned out on Saturday for the open membership meeting prior to the banquet. This was great opportunity for the membership to provide your BOD with input, ideas and suggestions.
A main topic of discussion was promoting riders from Novice to Expert. There was overwhelming support to revise the criteria and advance more racers to compete at the Expert level.

Please join the BOD in congratulating the following additional riders who have been promoted to Expert for 2007:

ROGER ALBERT
IGAL ASKEROGLU
TIM CHASON
CHARLES CHRISTINE
LUKE CONLIN
FREDDIE CORLEY
BRIAN FOX
RUSSEL GREEN
CHRIS HOLDERNESS
HAROLD JOHNSON
JEFF JORDAN
JEROMY KUMPER
CHRIS KUTALEK
BILLY LEE
BUDDY LOHR
TRAVIS MARSHALL
DAVID NOLDEN
JOE RALEY
PATRICK STOHRER
SUNIL THANDASSERY
DAVID W. WILSON

These are in addition to the previously posted group. Best of luck to all for the coming season.

Harry Tomlinson
11-16-2006, 09:55 PM
Thank you to all who turned out on Saturday for the open membership meeting prior to the banquet. This was great opportunity for the membership to provide your BOD with input, ideas and suggestions.
A main topic of discussion was promoting riders from Novice to Expert. There was overwhelming support to revise the criteria and advance more racers to compete at the Expert level.

Please join the BOD in congratulating the following additional riders who have been promoted to Expert for 2007:

ROGER ALBERT
IGAL ASKEROGLU
TIM CHASON
CHARLES CHRISTINE
LUKE CONLIN
FREDDIE CORLEY
BRIAN FOX
RUSSEL GREEN
CHRIS HOLDERNESS
HAROLD JOHNSON
JEFF JORDAN
JEROMY KUMPER
CHRIS KUTALEK
BILLY LEE
BUDDY LOHR
TRAVIS MARSHALL
DAVID NOLDEN
JOE RALEY
PATRICK STOHRER
SUNIL THANDASSERY
DAVID W. WILSON

These are in addition to the previously posted group. Best of luck to all for the coming season.

Jason Keene
11-17-2006, 05:56 AM
congrats to all...

Jason Keene
11-17-2006, 05:56 AM
congrats to all...

Christopher Corder
11-17-2006, 07:59 AM
http://www.wera.com/graphics/smilies/pop.gif

Christopher Corder
11-17-2006, 07:59 AM
http://www.wera.com/graphics/smilies/pop.gif

Chris Accardo
11-17-2006, 08:19 AM
Yeah. What Corder said.

Chris Accardo
11-17-2006, 08:19 AM
Yeah. What Corder said.

JesseJohnson
11-17-2006, 10:59 AM
Just an explanation to those who didn't attend the open meeting, it was decided to promote more novices in order to keep them racing together. Much of the fun amonst the promoted novices was lost when they found themselves racing alone in the expert class. More people racing each other in expert class = more people having fun = more riders sticking around.

If you truly feel like you can't move up, you can appeal to the BOD after the 2nd race weekend.

Jess

JesseJohnson
11-17-2006, 10:59 AM
Just an explanation to those who didn't attend the open meeting, it was decided to promote more novices in order to keep them racing together. Much of the fun amonst the promoted novices was lost when they found themselves racing alone in the expert class. More people racing each other in expert class = more people having fun = more riders sticking around.

If you truly feel like you can't move up, you can appeal to the BOD after the 2nd race weekend.

Jess

Christopher Corder
11-17-2006, 12:00 PM
I like it. It helps keep you with the people you came in with which is fun. I think it is great that Keene bumped earlier in the year but we missed seeing each other on the track much after that. Plus, you can still appeal if you feel like you are not ready. Its a win win.

Christopher Corder
11-17-2006, 12:00 PM
I like it. It helps keep you with the people you came in with which is fun. I think it is great that Keene bumped earlier in the year but we missed seeing each other on the track much after that. Plus, you can still appeal if you feel like you are not ready. Its a win win.

txsilverR6
11-17-2006, 07:58 PM
So keeping those people who rode together all in the same bunch is the same as saying they are advanced enough as a Novice to move up to Expert? Hmmm....I guess I have to question what the qualification process was to pick the select few listed above?

txsilverR6
11-17-2006, 07:58 PM
So keeping those people who rode together all in the same bunch is the same as saying they are advanced enough as a Novice to move up to Expert? Hmmm....I guess I have to question what the qualification process was to pick the select few listed above?

Jason Keene
11-17-2006, 08:24 PM
After checking results and lap times everyone should be proud of the accomplishment and the recognition of it...

Good show to all and I'll see ya on the grid

Jason Keene
11-17-2006, 08:24 PM
After checking results and lap times everyone should be proud of the accomplishment and the recognition of it...

Good show to all and I'll see ya on the grid

Tim Chason
11-17-2006, 08:35 PM
4.3 Index and my best finish was like 12th out of 15 riders. How did the BOD qualify the riders? Because there are other riders with higher Index that didnt get moved up /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif My fastest track is one we dont race at and Im still 5 seconds of Bucks pace there. I understand the need to move riders up.I understand if your even close to what the rule book says you have the chance to get moved. However when you are a little over half way there 4.3 that doesnt make since to me. Roger, and Chris had a good year in F7 thats the slowiest class in our club. I dont think anybody could say with a straight face since you do good on a XR100 your getting moved to expert /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif So if you do race a 600 you get to race with TY,TYLER,BIG R and the rest of the AMA pros. In closing if the BOD looked at my lap times on my 600 you cant possibly say I am a expert rider. So I will ask again what where the Qulifications for getting moved to expert? Thanks TIIIMMMMY

Tim Chason
11-17-2006, 08:35 PM
4.3 Index and my best finish was like 12th out of 15 riders. How did the BOD qualify the riders? Because there are other riders with higher Index that didnt get moved up /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif My fastest track is one we dont race at and Im still 5 seconds of Bucks pace there. I understand the need to move riders up.I understand if your even close to what the rule book says you have the chance to get moved. However when you are a little over half way there 4.3 that doesnt make since to me. Roger, and Chris had a good year in F7 thats the slowiest class in our club. I dont think anybody could say with a straight face since you do good on a XR100 your getting moved to expert /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif So if you do race a 600 you get to race with TY,TYLER,BIG R and the rest of the AMA pros. In closing if the BOD looked at my lap times on my 600 you cant possibly say I am a expert rider. So I will ask again what where the Qulifications for getting moved to expert? Thanks TIIIMMMMY

Tim Chason
11-17-2006, 08:49 PM
One thing to consider in the future. Dont post names that arent getting moved and then come back and say opps sorry. By that time decisions have been made on what classes we will race and money has been spent /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif I asked several times if I was getting moved to Expert the reply was always NO!!!!! Now thousands of dollars have been spent on building bikes that I wont race /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif NOT HAPPY,NOT HAPPY /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif The post clearly states any rider with a .6 or higer or a winner of a championship will be moved up.I cant find any where the post states that other riders will be moved up. From reading the minutes the BOD agreed no more riders would be moved up.Some body suggest that more riders get moved up and we throw the rule book out. Has anybody asked the people on the list if they wanted to move up? The BOD is allways saying rules are rules! So what happened here? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Is the BOD going to refund the money I have spent to build bikes on there rulling or change of rulling. I cant find anywhere that says the expert list will change. TIIIMMMMY

Tim Chason
11-17-2006, 08:49 PM
One thing to consider in the future. Dont post names that arent getting moved and then come back and say opps sorry. By that time decisions have been made on what classes we will race and money has been spent /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif I asked several times if I was getting moved to Expert the reply was always NO!!!!! Now thousands of dollars have been spent on building bikes that I wont race /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif NOT HAPPY,NOT HAPPY /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif The post clearly states any rider with a .6 or higer or a winner of a championship will be moved up.I cant find any where the post states that other riders will be moved up. From reading the minutes the BOD agreed no more riders would be moved up.Some body suggest that more riders get moved up and we throw the rule book out. Has anybody asked the people on the list if they wanted to move up? The BOD is allways saying rules are rules! So what happened here? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Is the BOD going to refund the money I have spent to build bikes on there rulling or change of rulling. I cant find anywhere that says the expert list will change. TIIIMMMMY

Leo McKeown
11-17-2006, 08:53 PM
Because it will be fun Tim.
Just think more people to race with in every class.
Sounds like fun to Me

Leo McKeown
11-17-2006, 08:53 PM
Because it will be fun Tim.
Just think more people to race with in every class.
Sounds like fun to Me

David Milner
11-17-2006, 09:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Tim Chason:
One thing to consider in the future. Dont post names that arent getting moved and then come back and say opps sorry. By that time decisions have been made on what classes we will race and money has been spent /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif I asked several times if I was getting moved to Expert the reply was always NO!!!!! Now thousands of dollars have been spent on building bikes that I wont race /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif NOT HAPPY,NOT HAPPY /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif The post clearly states any rider with a .6 or higer or a winner of a championship will be moved up.I cant find any where the post states that other riders will be moved up. From reading the minutes the BOD agreed no more riders would be moved up.Some body suggest that more riders get moved up and we throw the rule book out. Has anybody asked the people on the list if they wanted to move up? The BOD is allways saying rules are rules! So what happened here? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Is the BOD going to refund the money I have spent to build bikes on there rulling or change of rulling. I cant find anywhere that says the expert list will change. TIIIMMMMY </div></div>Maybe they figured that if you want to talk like the big boys, walk like the big boys, they would put you with the big boys. What's money, what's mouth, and what meets.

Now go give em hell.

Congrats to all, much deserved recognition.

David Milner
11-17-2006, 09:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Tim Chason:
One thing to consider in the future. Dont post names that arent getting moved and then come back and say opps sorry. By that time decisions have been made on what classes we will race and money has been spent /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif I asked several times if I was getting moved to Expert the reply was always NO!!!!! Now thousands of dollars have been spent on building bikes that I wont race /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif NOT HAPPY,NOT HAPPY /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif The post clearly states any rider with a .6 or higer or a winner of a championship will be moved up.I cant find any where the post states that other riders will be moved up. From reading the minutes the BOD agreed no more riders would be moved up.Some body suggest that more riders get moved up and we throw the rule book out. Has anybody asked the people on the list if they wanted to move up? The BOD is allways saying rules are rules! So what happened here? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Is the BOD going to refund the money I have spent to build bikes on there rulling or change of rulling. I cant find anywhere that says the expert list will change. TIIIMMMMY </div></div>Maybe they figured that if you want to talk like the big boys, walk like the big boys, they would put you with the big boys. What's money, what's mouth, and what meets.

Now go give em hell.

Congrats to all, much deserved recognition.

Mr8ones
11-17-2006, 10:31 PM
If the people in this "extra experts" list dont want to be experts, they should not have to wait 2 race weekends to appeal. If riders are alot slower than experts, but racing against them... i dont see how that could be more fun or even safe.

This is last reason I thought people would be bumped to expert... for fun and not for skill? Dont we split up the experts/novices for safety reasons?

Mr8ones
11-17-2006, 10:31 PM
If the people in this "extra experts" list dont want to be experts, they should not have to wait 2 race weekends to appeal. If riders are alot slower than experts, but racing against them... i dont see how that could be more fun or even safe.

This is last reason I thought people would be bumped to expert... for fun and not for skill? Dont we split up the experts/novices for safety reasons?

Roger Albert
11-17-2006, 10:43 PM
Thanks David, but I wouldn't say that I personally _deserve_ expert. That would kind of cheapen the accomplishment for all, don't you think /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Boy, I hate to publicly, and in _written_ fashion no less, agree with Tim on anything /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif but the only way I could possibly have gotten bumped would be to my mad (sad?) skillz on an XR100.

Though I sat in on the open meeting, and support and understand the decision, I can't believe a couple of us that have ended up on the new list.

Looked at on the basis of big bikes (and the minis shouldn't really matter, given the lesser required skills, and the fact that they're run with both expert and novice combined anyway), I'm personally not terribly qualified. One need only look, even casually, at my laptimes. Heck, I'm slower on an SV that Tim on a Motard, as he's publicly stated in the past /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif (sad but true) If I were at the back of the pack during a race, it would be one thing, but generally, after a lap or two, I'm not even in sight of the pack (even among other lightweight novices) and invariably am getting lapped before races end, normally by a number of other riders.

I don't want to be one of those sandbagger guys.
I just want come up to speed (literally and figuratively) as my skills develop, and be racing amongst my laptime peers. Again, I generally don't even run well enough to be out of the bottom couple people amongst other novices. Often times out circulating all by myself, too far behind to see, or learn from even the other slow, but still-quicker-than me novices. That state of affairs will be much worse with me in "amongst" (read: well well behind) the experts. Lastly, I don't feel it's safe for either me, or other experts who should rightly expect a certain level of knowledge, consistency and predictability from other white plates. I can't wait to be an expert one day. It's a strong goal. But I want to earn and deserve it, and be ready and safe in it.

I hope the powers that be will review this decision _before_ the next season. I hope that they will look away from mini results (especially just F7) and look at both laptimes and finishes. And on the latter, if you see a 3rd, note carefully that there were only 4 or 5 people, and two of them ran off the track.

Again, I support and understand the whole idea.
But I think the criteria maybe have been either poorly selected, or have been made in too blanket of a fashion (mixing mini and big bike results --- in one of them I look pretty cool, in the other like an idiot. I fear the latter is more representative)

Lastly, remember, I'm the one that can type and spell (usually) and Timmy the one that can ride.
Promote him, not me /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Roger Albert
11-17-2006, 10:43 PM
Thanks David, but I wouldn't say that I personally _deserve_ expert. That would kind of cheapen the accomplishment for all, don't you think /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Boy, I hate to publicly, and in _written_ fashion no less, agree with Tim on anything /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif but the only way I could possibly have gotten bumped would be to my mad (sad?) skillz on an XR100.

Though I sat in on the open meeting, and support and understand the decision, I can't believe a couple of us that have ended up on the new list.

Looked at on the basis of big bikes (and the minis shouldn't really matter, given the lesser required skills, and the fact that they're run with both expert and novice combined anyway), I'm personally not terribly qualified. One need only look, even casually, at my laptimes. Heck, I'm slower on an SV that Tim on a Motard, as he's publicly stated in the past /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif (sad but true) If I were at the back of the pack during a race, it would be one thing, but generally, after a lap or two, I'm not even in sight of the pack (even among other lightweight novices) and invariably am getting lapped before races end, normally by a number of other riders.

I don't want to be one of those sandbagger guys.
I just want come up to speed (literally and figuratively) as my skills develop, and be racing amongst my laptime peers. Again, I generally don't even run well enough to be out of the bottom couple people amongst other novices. Often times out circulating all by myself, too far behind to see, or learn from even the other slow, but still-quicker-than me novices. That state of affairs will be much worse with me in "amongst" (read: well well behind) the experts. Lastly, I don't feel it's safe for either me, or other experts who should rightly expect a certain level of knowledge, consistency and predictability from other white plates. I can't wait to be an expert one day. It's a strong goal. But I want to earn and deserve it, and be ready and safe in it.

I hope the powers that be will review this decision _before_ the next season. I hope that they will look away from mini results (especially just F7) and look at both laptimes and finishes. And on the latter, if you see a 3rd, note carefully that there were only 4 or 5 people, and two of them ran off the track.

Again, I support and understand the whole idea.
But I think the criteria maybe have been either poorly selected, or have been made in too blanket of a fashion (mixing mini and big bike results --- in one of them I look pretty cool, in the other like an idiot. I fear the latter is more representative)

Lastly, remember, I'm the one that can type and spell (usually) and Timmy the one that can ride.
Promote him, not me /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Chris Kotowski
11-18-2006, 06:59 AM
The five stages of grief are:
1-Denial-"this can't be happening to me", No crying. Not accepting or even acknowledging the loss (of Novice Status).
2-Anger-"why me?”, feelings of wanting to fight back or get even with the BoD, blaming them for you having some talent.
3-Bargaining-bargaining (spelled w h i n i n g) often takes place before the loss. Attempting to make deals with the BoD members, or attempting to make deals with God to stop or change the loss (of novice status). Begging, wishing, praying for it to come back (This one is spelled A p p e a l L e t t e r).
4-Depression-overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration, bitterness, self pity, mourning loss of status as well as the hopes, dreams and plans for the future. Feeling lack of control, feeling numb.
5-Acceptance-there is a difference between resignation and acceptance. You have to accept the loss, not just try to bear it quietly. Realization that you’re Still gridding up with friends. Realization that your Novice days are over, that it is not the fault of the Club, they didn't promote you without reason. Finding the good that can come out of the pain of loss, finding comfort and healing. Hold on to the fond memories of your Novice racing days, But embrace your new beginnings.

Chris Kotowski
11-18-2006, 06:59 AM
The five stages of grief are:
1-Denial-"this can't be happening to me", No crying. Not accepting or even acknowledging the loss (of Novice Status).
2-Anger-"why me?”, feelings of wanting to fight back or get even with the BoD, blaming them for you having some talent.
3-Bargaining-bargaining (spelled w h i n i n g) often takes place before the loss. Attempting to make deals with the BoD members, or attempting to make deals with God to stop or change the loss (of novice status). Begging, wishing, praying for it to come back (This one is spelled A p p e a l L e t t e r).
4-Depression-overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration, bitterness, self pity, mourning loss of status as well as the hopes, dreams and plans for the future. Feeling lack of control, feeling numb.
5-Acceptance-there is a difference between resignation and acceptance. You have to accept the loss, not just try to bear it quietly. Realization that you’re Still gridding up with friends. Realization that your Novice days are over, that it is not the fault of the Club, they didn't promote you without reason. Finding the good that can come out of the pain of loss, finding comfort and healing. Hold on to the fond memories of your Novice racing days, But embrace your new beginnings.

Chris Kotowski
11-18-2006, 07:14 AM
Congrats to all.
Remember you weren't bumped because you are the fastest but rather because you are not the slowest. Lap times combined with your continuing improvement over the year finishing position and who you raced for that position were all factors. Of course, your ability to get around the track safely at speed weighed in all of our recommendations. There was nothing arbitrary or malicious about our decision.

Chris Kotowski
11-18-2006, 07:14 AM
Congrats to all.
Remember you weren't bumped because you are the fastest but rather because you are not the slowest. Lap times combined with your continuing improvement over the year finishing position and who you raced for that position were all factors. Of course, your ability to get around the track safely at speed weighed in all of our recommendations. There was nothing arbitrary or malicious about our decision.

Roger Albert
11-18-2006, 09:28 AM
Hi Chris,

thanks for the note. I for one sure don't think there was anything malicous, or anything but the best intentions involved. Possibly some oversight though.

I'll spare anybody (and myself) the public agony of a long list of my poor finishes, but suffice to say my finishes, on big bikes, when judged against other novices on SVs, are generally in the lowest quartile, and often in the lowest 10%, and more than one in the lowest 5% or dead last among riders on the same bike. Again, I'm usually straggling way behind all the other SVs even amongst other novices. Does that sound like an expert to _anyone_

I'd be glad to share a list of just how low my finishes were

I sure wish someone who made the decision would look at my finishes and laptimes on a big bike.
I'd be glad to provide such a list, which I've already compiled, to make it easy on the powers that be. It's too embarassing to publish here /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Who does one talk to on this issue?

thanks
roger

Roger Albert
11-18-2006, 09:28 AM
Hi Chris,

thanks for the note. I for one sure don't think there was anything malicous, or anything but the best intentions involved. Possibly some oversight though.

I'll spare anybody (and myself) the public agony of a long list of my poor finishes, but suffice to say my finishes, on big bikes, when judged against other novices on SVs, are generally in the lowest quartile, and often in the lowest 10%, and more than one in the lowest 5% or dead last among riders on the same bike. Again, I'm usually straggling way behind all the other SVs even amongst other novices. Does that sound like an expert to _anyone_

I'd be glad to share a list of just how low my finishes were

I sure wish someone who made the decision would look at my finishes and laptimes on a big bike.
I'd be glad to provide such a list, which I've already compiled, to make it easy on the powers that be. It's too embarassing to publish here /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Who does one talk to on this issue?

thanks
roger

Barry Nichols
11-18-2006, 09:32 AM
Roger and Tim,
I understand your grief. In 1992 I was moved to expert for finishing top 5 on a YSR50 racing in the mini class. The whole reason I was racing a mini is because the previous year on a big bike I finished behind last place and someone told me I could hone my skills on a mini and then try big bike again. I could not believe it! I complained and begged and threatened, but to no avail. Connie just told me I was fast enough and the experts would only make me faster. I cried BS! Then I realized I had a choice; Quit the club or race as an expert. I did not want to quit, all of my friends were racing. So I saddled up and began 1992 as an expert on a 1989 FZR600. I would like to tell you I went straight to the top, but some people have been around long enough to know I was lying. The truth is I have never won a single expert race on a big bike, but I had a lot of fun and after 15 years I am still around. Oh, by the way, I have a couple of Thirds and a whole lot of Top 5's as well as a thousand laps of Expert Endurance. The point is take this for what it is...fun. Get your bikes ready and go race. Maybe you'll win! But if you don't so what. Is that all you are here for anyway? Congratulations !

Barry Nichols
11-18-2006, 09:32 AM
Roger and Tim,
I understand your grief. In 1992 I was moved to expert for finishing top 5 on a YSR50 racing in the mini class. The whole reason I was racing a mini is because the previous year on a big bike I finished behind last place and someone told me I could hone my skills on a mini and then try big bike again. I could not believe it! I complained and begged and threatened, but to no avail. Connie just told me I was fast enough and the experts would only make me faster. I cried BS! Then I realized I had a choice; Quit the club or race as an expert. I did not want to quit, all of my friends were racing. So I saddled up and began 1992 as an expert on a 1989 FZR600. I would like to tell you I went straight to the top, but some people have been around long enough to know I was lying. The truth is I have never won a single expert race on a big bike, but I had a lot of fun and after 15 years I am still around. Oh, by the way, I have a couple of Thirds and a whole lot of Top 5's as well as a thousand laps of Expert Endurance. The point is take this for what it is...fun. Get your bikes ready and go race. Maybe you'll win! But if you don't so what. Is that all you are here for anyway? Congratulations !

Christopher Corder
11-18-2006, 10:22 AM
While we are at it, you shouldnt be able to ride big bike endurace for umpteen years and then come out as a sprint novice. Big bike endurance should count as well.

Christopher Corder
11-18-2006, 10:22 AM
While we are at it, you shouldnt be able to ride big bike endurace for umpteen years and then come out as a sprint novice. Big bike endurance should count as well.

Nancy Selleck
11-18-2006, 10:49 AM
Christopher, how do you monitor which rider is riding the endurance bike at any given time during the race?

Nancy Selleck
11-18-2006, 10:49 AM
Christopher, how do you monitor which rider is riding the endurance bike at any given time during the race?

txsilverR6
11-18-2006, 11:08 AM
When do I get my 1 call?

txsilverR6
11-18-2006, 11:08 AM
When do I get my 1 call?

Christopher Corder
11-18-2006, 11:13 AM
Ms. Selleck,

I have only gripes, no solutions. You must have confused me with someone who is actually helpful.

Christopher Corder
11-18-2006, 11:13 AM
Ms. Selleck,

I have only gripes, no solutions. You must have confused me with someone who is actually helpful.

txsilverR6
11-18-2006, 11:25 AM
I clearly read in the 2006 CMRA Rule Book:
"The Novice rider must have entered at least 15 races to be included in consideration for advancement. The CMRA Board of Directors will determine the number of Novice riders to be advanced each season, and the Rider Index will be announced following the last race of each season. Riders with a Rider Index at and above the announced Rider Index are automatically moved up to Expert the following year."

Also, any Novice who wins a Class Championship is automatically moved up to Expert. Riders may decline advancement via writing or email to CMRA if they feel they are not ready to compete on the Expert level, and may or may not be allowed to retain Novice status pending review of the rider's performance and finishes by the BMRA Board of Directors.

That being said...the posted rider index was announced as .6. The list was generated and those meeting the index requirement were granted a promotion to Expert status.

What is the rider index, as decided and posted at the end of the season?

So....In my case....I didn't meet the rider index, didn't participate in at least 15 races in the Novice classes....what supports the BOD decision to move me to Expert?

Also....I didn't get my call....Let's discuss!

txsilverR6
11-18-2006, 11:25 AM
I clearly read in the 2006 CMRA Rule Book:
"The Novice rider must have entered at least 15 races to be included in consideration for advancement. The CMRA Board of Directors will determine the number of Novice riders to be advanced each season, and the Rider Index will be announced following the last race of each season. Riders with a Rider Index at and above the announced Rider Index are automatically moved up to Expert the following year."

Also, any Novice who wins a Class Championship is automatically moved up to Expert. Riders may decline advancement via writing or email to CMRA if they feel they are not ready to compete on the Expert level, and may or may not be allowed to retain Novice status pending review of the rider's performance and finishes by the BMRA Board of Directors.

That being said...the posted rider index was announced as .6. The list was generated and those meeting the index requirement were granted a promotion to Expert status.

What is the rider index, as decided and posted at the end of the season?

So....In my case....I didn't meet the rider index, didn't participate in at least 15 races in the Novice classes....what supports the BOD decision to move me to Expert?

Also....I didn't get my call....Let's discuss!

Roger Albert
11-18-2006, 11:28 AM
> Ms. Selleck,
> I have only gripes, no solutions.
> You must have confused me with someone
> who is actually helpful.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Roger Albert
11-18-2006, 11:28 AM
> Ms. Selleck,
> I have only gripes, no solutions.
> You must have confused me with someone
> who is actually helpful.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Justin Molet
11-18-2006, 12:19 PM
i don't think its that bad of an idea, other than catching people off guard. hopefully it'll even out the grids a little bit (numbers wise) and make for better racing at the back of the expert pack. sort of a way to add an intermediate group without actually making a new class and taking up more time during the day. although it does kind of suck for those that will miss out on a year of novice trophies and contingency money.

if it were me in that position, i'd go for it.

Justin Molet
11-18-2006, 12:19 PM
i don't think its that bad of an idea, other than catching people off guard. hopefully it'll even out the grids a little bit (numbers wise) and make for better racing at the back of the expert pack. sort of a way to add an intermediate group without actually making a new class and taking up more time during the day. although it does kind of suck for those that will miss out on a year of novice trophies and contingency money.

if it were me in that position, i'd go for it.

Tim Chason
11-18-2006, 01:08 PM
The BOD made it rulling on 10/23 or thats when the new experts where posted. I can not find anywhere that says more will be added. The classes I would have raced as a novice is not the same if I would have been expert. I put everything on hold untill the list came out! I made my decisitions on the BOD posted list. If I would have been expert from the start I would have made different choices on bikes and classes. It is well know I was waiting on the list to come out. I have spent over 25,000.00 dollars on bikes that I wont race in expert. This money was spent on the BOD rulling. Chris call it what you want its still B.S. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif After many post asking Questions to the BOD on next years classes and rules. It was allways Tim read the rule book its not going to change /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Then allmost a month later on 11/16 the BOD says OPPS. How many times was I called stupid and dumb rookie for asking what some considered to be stupid Questions. If the BOD CANT SEE WHY PEOPLE ARE UPSET with this maybe I need to rethink things. Im not upset to be expert.Im upset because I was told one thing then we did the total opposite /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif If you paid to get your car painted red. Then you pick it up and its blue. Would you be upset? I sent request to the BOD. I will sit out the first two races. Please let me know on the rulling. Thanks Tim Chason /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

Tim Chason
11-18-2006, 01:08 PM
The BOD made it rulling on 10/23 or thats when the new experts where posted. I can not find anywhere that says more will be added. The classes I would have raced as a novice is not the same if I would have been expert. I put everything on hold untill the list came out! I made my decisitions on the BOD posted list. If I would have been expert from the start I would have made different choices on bikes and classes. It is well know I was waiting on the list to come out. I have spent over 25,000.00 dollars on bikes that I wont race in expert. This money was spent on the BOD rulling. Chris call it what you want its still B.S. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif After many post asking Questions to the BOD on next years classes and rules. It was allways Tim read the rule book its not going to change /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Then allmost a month later on 11/16 the BOD says OPPS. How many times was I called stupid and dumb rookie for asking what some considered to be stupid Questions. If the BOD CANT SEE WHY PEOPLE ARE UPSET with this maybe I need to rethink things. Im not upset to be expert.Im upset because I was told one thing then we did the total opposite /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif If you paid to get your car painted red. Then you pick it up and its blue. Would you be upset? I sent request to the BOD. I will sit out the first two races. Please let me know on the rulling. Thanks Tim Chason /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

Executioner
11-18-2006, 03:44 PM
Wow - just got the letter in the mail today. Too busy packing to be on the board much...

Kotowski - you're a funny man! I'm at stage 4 right now - depression, but more due to the fact that I can't race you next year than the fact of being promoted to expert.

I believe the decision is correct, I would love to race (and most of all -beat) Sonny next year and watch Nathan take off in the distance, unfortunately I'll be sittin' on my *** freezing in Norway.

Perhaps upon my return I will take the leathers out of storage and start dukin' it out with y'all. But as a novice I hope, justification being the lack of practice for 1 year. Sound reasonable...?

Perhaps there should also be a difference between mini ex/nov and big bike ex/nov. No offense but there is a difference between an XR100 and a GSXR1000, and I'm not talking the extra "GS" an "0"...!

Executioner
11-18-2006, 03:44 PM
Wow - just got the letter in the mail today. Too busy packing to be on the board much...

Kotowski - you're a funny man! I'm at stage 4 right now - depression, but more due to the fact that I can't race you next year than the fact of being promoted to expert.

I believe the decision is correct, I would love to race (and most of all -beat) Sonny next year and watch Nathan take off in the distance, unfortunately I'll be sittin' on my *** freezing in Norway.

Perhaps upon my return I will take the leathers out of storage and start dukin' it out with y'all. But as a novice I hope, justification being the lack of practice for 1 year. Sound reasonable...?

Perhaps there should also be a difference between mini ex/nov and big bike ex/nov. No offense but there is a difference between an XR100 and a GSXR1000, and I'm not talking the extra "GS" an "0"...!

Executioner
11-18-2006, 03:47 PM
TIMMMUH, how've you been? C'mon, last I saw you were dukin' it out with Chase Vivion, not exactly a novice.

The issue I see here again as with all decisions is that you just can't make everybody happy, no matter what you do! Go BOD and go CMRA!

Executioner
11-18-2006, 03:47 PM
TIMMMUH, how've you been? C'mon, last I saw you were dukin' it out with Chase Vivion, not exactly a novice.

The issue I see here again as with all decisions is that you just can't make everybody happy, no matter what you do! Go BOD and go CMRA!

txsilverR6
11-18-2006, 04:28 PM
BOD Meeting Minutes:

7. Novice to Expert for 2007. Agreed to not make any changes to the number of Novices moved up for 2007 but to review the process for 2008 to move up a larger group. (Note: After a discussion with the general membership at the Open Membership meeting immediately following this Board Meeting, the Board decided to move up another group of Novices for 2007. The exact number and names of the riders to be agreed upon after review. An announcement to be made on the CMRA website and each rider contacted directly by Nancy).

txsilverR6
11-18-2006, 04:28 PM
BOD Meeting Minutes:

7. Novice to Expert for 2007. Agreed to not make any changes to the number of Novices moved up for 2007 but to review the process for 2008 to move up a larger group. (Note: After a discussion with the general membership at the Open Membership meeting immediately following this Board Meeting, the Board decided to move up another group of Novices for 2007. The exact number and names of the riders to be agreed upon after review. An announcement to be made on the CMRA website and each rider contacted directly by Nancy).

Todd Gyure
11-18-2006, 04:36 PM
Patrick Tim e cannot 'duke it out' with Chase Vivion. Not even in the same country speed wise. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif If you are talking about the Motard, Chase has been putt'n around on burned up tires for the last several race weekends of '06 getting enough points to win the championship, and not crash.

I too have been told by the BOD that rules are rules, and are followed to the T. Now we see that is not true. Tim e has a legit beef, what a waste of money on the bikes for a '07 race plan based on rules that mean nothing.

Todd Gyure
11-18-2006, 04:36 PM
Patrick Tim e cannot 'duke it out' with Chase Vivion. Not even in the same country speed wise. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif If you are talking about the Motard, Chase has been putt'n around on burned up tires for the last several race weekends of '06 getting enough points to win the championship, and not crash.

I too have been told by the BOD that rules are rules, and are followed to the T. Now we see that is not true. Tim e has a legit beef, what a waste of money on the bikes for a '07 race plan based on rules that mean nothing.

2SlowButTryin
11-18-2006, 05:07 PM
Again, I hate to admit it but Timmuah has a legit beef here... I watched fur fly over Kienasty's little problem over novice/expert ranking and the BOD's stance was "Rules Are RULES, if ya don't like'em.. try and get it changed for NEXT year..." If your worried about splitting up running buddies to keep the competition close then remind everyone you can jump up whenever you want too... simply request your white plate and hang on!!! So for those who are losing thier competition... move on UP!!!

I must laugh at one more post...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Of course, your ability to get around the track safely at speed weighed in all of our recommendations. ...Kotowski... </div></div>there is a reason my family calls me "Crash"... in all honesty, i have made it to ONE race weekend that I did not crash at... JUST 1!! and I still had an off-road excursion there.. I just have learned how to race on the GRASS!!! Some weekends I went asphault surfing 2 or 3 times!!! I have 1 track I am legitamately fast at (Cresson, CCW), 1 I came in DEAD Freakin' LAST at (Cresson, CW)... and 1 I have NEVER RACED ON BEFORE... (Hallet, CCW) So lets reevaluate Safety and finishes... really... lol. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

2SlowButTryin
11-18-2006, 05:07 PM
Again, I hate to admit it but Timmuah has a legit beef here... I watched fur fly over Kienasty's little problem over novice/expert ranking and the BOD's stance was "Rules Are RULES, if ya don't like'em.. try and get it changed for NEXT year..." If your worried about splitting up running buddies to keep the competition close then remind everyone you can jump up whenever you want too... simply request your white plate and hang on!!! So for those who are losing thier competition... move on UP!!!

I must laugh at one more post...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Of course, your ability to get around the track safely at speed weighed in all of our recommendations. ...Kotowski... </div></div>there is a reason my family calls me "Crash"... in all honesty, i have made it to ONE race weekend that I did not crash at... JUST 1!! and I still had an off-road excursion there.. I just have learned how to race on the GRASS!!! Some weekends I went asphault surfing 2 or 3 times!!! I have 1 track I am legitamately fast at (Cresson, CCW), 1 I came in DEAD Freakin' LAST at (Cresson, CW)... and 1 I have NEVER RACED ON BEFORE... (Hallet, CCW) So lets reevaluate Safety and finishes... really... lol. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

Tim Chason
11-18-2006, 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by Nancy Selleck

Administrator
Member # 331

Member Rated:
posted October 25, 2006 02:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please folks, read the first post of this thread!!

Riders with 0.6 and above (in bold below) are moved to Expert...not EVERYONE on this list.

0.9459214 - Kelsey, Danny
0.8725164 - Moore, Tony
0.8581070 - Schutz, Clayton
0.8332829 - Hunt, Jeremy
0.8184614 - Gardner, Nathan
0.7767263 - Harrell, Michael
0.7532375 - Kitchen, Cody
0.7427085 - LeMaire, Bryan
0.7359325 - Magnus, Thomas
0.7273817 - Lang, David
0.7190970 - Beasley, Buck
0.7134748 - Newman, Frank
0.7099749 - Klepper, Mark
0.7057796 - Taylor, David
0.7031308 - Eder, Roy
0.6849124 - Asbury, Heather
0.6752793 - Dupuis, Susette
0.6447273 - Fleeman, Todd
0.6440446 - Wilkinson, Paul
0.6371812 - Giarratano, Gary
0.6353183 - Corder, Christopher
0.6325620 - Kline, Mark
0.6222422 - McKeown, Leo
0.6139856 - Rodriguez, Mauricio
0.6021919 - Edmonson, Bryan
0.6014587 - Zelm, Shane
0.5975286 - Accardo, Chris
0.5930333 - Fox, Brian
0.5897549 - Thandassery, Sunil
0.5878946 - Stohrer, Patrick
0.5846645 - Raley, Joe
0.5774660 - Nolden, David
0.5505425 - Lohr, Buddy
0.5478883 - Holderness, Chris
0.5412934 - Kutalek, Chris
0.5346071 - Corley, Freddie
0.5333327 - Green, Russel
0.5319464 - Johnson, Blaine
0.4894246 - Kumper, Jeromy
0.4787603 - Christine, Charles
0.4787291 - Jordan, Jeff
0.4658572 - Wilson, David W.
0.4656043 - Chason, Tim
0.4383697 - Lee, Billy
0.4308484 - Albert, Roger
0.4135859 - Carter, Willie
0.4049420 - Chapman, Jake
0.4033756 - Wang, Tony
0.3877383 - Marshall, Travis
0.3676296 - Callahan, Pierson
0.3601258 - West, A.J.
0.3387927 - Honzell, Torrey
0.3005859 - Falconi, Jim
0.2995798 - Gardner, Slade
0.2906253 - Johanson, Ashley
0.2895539 - Magnus, Larry
0.2708381 - Johnson, Harold
0.2298258 - Epperson, Gilbert
0.2032385 - Beedle, Marcus
0.1967849 - Coker, Lenny
0.1758278 - Henry, Lee
0.1594686 - Smith, Stephen W.

--------------------
Nancy Selleck
CMRA Daycare Administrator
Ph: 817-377-1599
Fax: 817-377-1655
nancy@cmraracing.com

Remember the Danny Kelsey thing at the end of the year /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Our rule book is here for a reason! we cant just change the rules because we dont like something. :rolleyes: I think this is a good idea.However I dont feel there was enough thought put into it. How come Pierson or Tony didnt get moved up . Both of them spank my *** on a 125 and F4 /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Once again this was not thought threw.This sounds more like somthing that should have been put in place in 2008. After the BOD had time to think it threw. TIIIMMMMY

Tim Chason
11-18-2006, 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by Nancy Selleck

Administrator
Member # 331

Member Rated:
posted October 25, 2006 02:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please folks, read the first post of this thread!!

Riders with 0.6 and above (in bold below) are moved to Expert...not EVERYONE on this list.

0.9459214 - Kelsey, Danny
0.8725164 - Moore, Tony
0.8581070 - Schutz, Clayton
0.8332829 - Hunt, Jeremy
0.8184614 - Gardner, Nathan
0.7767263 - Harrell, Michael
0.7532375 - Kitchen, Cody
0.7427085 - LeMaire, Bryan
0.7359325 - Magnus, Thomas
0.7273817 - Lang, David
0.7190970 - Beasley, Buck
0.7134748 - Newman, Frank
0.7099749 - Klepper, Mark
0.7057796 - Taylor, David
0.7031308 - Eder, Roy
0.6849124 - Asbury, Heather
0.6752793 - Dupuis, Susette
0.6447273 - Fleeman, Todd
0.6440446 - Wilkinson, Paul
0.6371812 - Giarratano, Gary
0.6353183 - Corder, Christopher
0.6325620 - Kline, Mark
0.6222422 - McKeown, Leo
0.6139856 - Rodriguez, Mauricio
0.6021919 - Edmonson, Bryan
0.6014587 - Zelm, Shane
0.5975286 - Accardo, Chris
0.5930333 - Fox, Brian
0.5897549 - Thandassery, Sunil
0.5878946 - Stohrer, Patrick
0.5846645 - Raley, Joe
0.5774660 - Nolden, David
0.5505425 - Lohr, Buddy
0.5478883 - Holderness, Chris
0.5412934 - Kutalek, Chris
0.5346071 - Corley, Freddie
0.5333327 - Green, Russel
0.5319464 - Johnson, Blaine
0.4894246 - Kumper, Jeromy
0.4787603 - Christine, Charles
0.4787291 - Jordan, Jeff
0.4658572 - Wilson, David W.
0.4656043 - Chason, Tim
0.4383697 - Lee, Billy
0.4308484 - Albert, Roger
0.4135859 - Carter, Willie
0.4049420 - Chapman, Jake
0.4033756 - Wang, Tony
0.3877383 - Marshall, Travis
0.3676296 - Callahan, Pierson
0.3601258 - West, A.J.
0.3387927 - Honzell, Torrey
0.3005859 - Falconi, Jim
0.2995798 - Gardner, Slade
0.2906253 - Johanson, Ashley
0.2895539 - Magnus, Larry
0.2708381 - Johnson, Harold
0.2298258 - Epperson, Gilbert
0.2032385 - Beedle, Marcus
0.1967849 - Coker, Lenny
0.1758278 - Henry, Lee
0.1594686 - Smith, Stephen W.

--------------------
Nancy Selleck
CMRA Daycare Administrator
Ph: 817-377-1599
Fax: 817-377-1655
nancy@cmraracing.com

Remember the Danny Kelsey thing at the end of the year /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Our rule book is here for a reason! we cant just change the rules because we dont like something. :rolleyes: I think this is a good idea.However I dont feel there was enough thought put into it. How come Pierson or Tony didnt get moved up . Both of them spank my *** on a 125 and F4 /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Once again this was not thought threw.This sounds more like somthing that should have been put in place in 2008. After the BOD had time to think it threw. TIIIMMMMY

Roger Albert
11-18-2006, 06:41 PM
Hmmm, having lined up the overall rankings on a spreadsheet, I see I'm the 3rd lowest ranked of the new bumps. A lowly place indeed. I also see a fair number of people not bumped that are _way_ faster than me. So I'm pretty much lowest ranked new expert, and only "earned" that by showing up to a lot of F7 races. Man, if the new experts felt lonely last year, wait til they see me next year.
Assuming I don't take a year off and go practice at trackdays. I already only get to run 6 or 7 laps in a novice sprint before the winner laps me and finishes it. Now I'll get to run only 5 or 6 laps. Makes it _awfully_ expensive per lap. Fun can still be had, I'm sure, but 35-75 bucks for 5 laps? I'm not so sure. Someone needs to seriously compare the laptimes and actual big bike performance of some of the people they're promoting. Really _look_ at it.

Since I lined up all the new bumps on a spreadsheet with the overall novice list and index, I can see that, with very few exceptions, they just moved the index down to about .41, from the original .60. i.e. it may have been done with _some_ thought, but since all but 4 of the 20 new bumps were right in a rpw, just above the new index, it's appears there was not a lot of individual evaluation and consideration to actual skills, save maybe 3 or 4 of the cases. The line was simply drawn a lot lower than previously. 0.4 instead of 0.6, in round numbers. That is an enormous percentage difference in speed, performance, and index. I personally was lowest of the non exceptions.
I sign off in shame and bewilderment.

Roger Albert
11-18-2006, 06:41 PM
Hmmm, having lined up the overall rankings on a spreadsheet, I see I'm the 3rd lowest ranked of the new bumps. A lowly place indeed. I also see a fair number of people not bumped that are _way_ faster than me. So I'm pretty much lowest ranked new expert, and only "earned" that by showing up to a lot of F7 races. Man, if the new experts felt lonely last year, wait til they see me next year.
Assuming I don't take a year off and go practice at trackdays. I already only get to run 6 or 7 laps in a novice sprint before the winner laps me and finishes it. Now I'll get to run only 5 or 6 laps. Makes it _awfully_ expensive per lap. Fun can still be had, I'm sure, but 35-75 bucks for 5 laps? I'm not so sure. Someone needs to seriously compare the laptimes and actual big bike performance of some of the people they're promoting. Really _look_ at it.

Since I lined up all the new bumps on a spreadsheet with the overall novice list and index, I can see that, with very few exceptions, they just moved the index down to about .41, from the original .60. i.e. it may have been done with _some_ thought, but since all but 4 of the 20 new bumps were right in a rpw, just above the new index, it's appears there was not a lot of individual evaluation and consideration to actual skills, save maybe 3 or 4 of the cases. The line was simply drawn a lot lower than previously. 0.4 instead of 0.6, in round numbers. That is an enormous percentage difference in speed, performance, and index. I personally was lowest of the non exceptions.
I sign off in shame and bewilderment.

Nancy Selleck
11-18-2006, 06:55 PM
Absolutely nothing will be gained by griping on the message board. Nothing.

File an appeal.

Send me an email to present to the Board...plead your case on a personal level...let the Board members respond to you personally about why you got bumped. They can't respond to each of you individually on the message board.

Nancy Selleck
11-18-2006, 06:55 PM
Absolutely nothing will be gained by griping on the message board. Nothing.

File an appeal.

Send me an email to present to the Board...plead your case on a personal level...let the Board members respond to you personally about why you got bumped. They can't respond to each of you individually on the message board.

Chase Vivion
11-18-2006, 09:36 PM
I broke the beaverton damn!!!!

Chase Vivion
11-18-2006, 09:36 PM
I broke the beaverton damn!!!!

Executioner
11-18-2006, 10:21 PM
As I said - you can't make everyone happy. I guess I would worry more about it if I were racing next year. The plan originally was to go out and get some wood next season now that all the fast guys ahead of me got bumped. Well, it didn't work out.

Timmuh does have a point - rules are rules and should be enforced until changed. Again, I'd personally worry more about it if I were racing next year. And believe me I'd rather be racing - expert or novice, doesn't matter - than not racing! I'll miss oyu guys 'till 2008!

Executioner
11-18-2006, 10:21 PM
As I said - you can't make everyone happy. I guess I would worry more about it if I were racing next year. The plan originally was to go out and get some wood next season now that all the fast guys ahead of me got bumped. Well, it didn't work out.

Timmuh does have a point - rules are rules and should be enforced until changed. Again, I'd personally worry more about it if I were racing next year. And believe me I'd rather be racing - expert or novice, doesn't matter - than not racing! I'll miss oyu guys 'till 2008!

hooligan120
11-19-2006, 11:03 AM
Quit complaining it won't change things? Wow, I thought this is was great venue to air our opinions so ALL can understand the issue and make their own judgment on this ruling. I for one, was added to this new Expert list. I feel their was a good chance I may have made the index if I had raced all 10 races. I raced 5 & podiumed 3. Again the superfluous problems are: some people on the list have no business moving to expert at this time and rules are rules(I was advised this year by CMRA on an infraction, to refer to rulebook & their would be no deviation, even though CMRA was also 50% at fault). If there is going to be a BOLD proposed change, then lets present it to all the members & get feeback & implement the change the next season. This way we can all understand what lies ahead so we can prepare for it in a timely fashion. Lastly getting bumped to Expert is quite an accomplishment to me, but under these circumstances it seems it has reduced the status of the Expert class. Especially with the definition that this change was made to promote HAPPY racers and keep Novice groups together. Discontent is the necessity of progress.

hooligan120
11-19-2006, 11:03 AM
Quit complaining it won't change things? Wow, I thought this is was great venue to air our opinions so ALL can understand the issue and make their own judgment on this ruling. I for one, was added to this new Expert list. I feel their was a good chance I may have made the index if I had raced all 10 races. I raced 5 & podiumed 3. Again the superfluous problems are: some people on the list have no business moving to expert at this time and rules are rules(I was advised this year by CMRA on an infraction, to refer to rulebook & their would be no deviation, even though CMRA was also 50% at fault). If there is going to be a BOLD proposed change, then lets present it to all the members & get feeback & implement the change the next season. This way we can all understand what lies ahead so we can prepare for it in a timely fashion. Lastly getting bumped to Expert is quite an accomplishment to me, but under these circumstances it seems it has reduced the status of the Expert class. Especially with the definition that this change was made to promote HAPPY racers and keep Novice groups together. Discontent is the necessity of progress.

Barry Nichols
11-19-2006, 11:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by David W Wilson:
If there is going to be a BOLD proposed change, then lets present it to all the members & get feeback & implement the change the next season. This way we can all understand what lies ahead so we can prepare for it in a timely fashion. </div></div>BoD elections just held....150 votes out of some 600+ members...postage provided /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

Open members meeting at banquet.....20-30 members in attendance /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

Expecting to get feedback from all the members...........Priceless /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Barry Nichols
11-19-2006, 11:16 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by David W Wilson:
If there is going to be a BOLD proposed change, then lets present it to all the members & get feeback & implement the change the next season. This way we can all understand what lies ahead so we can prepare for it in a timely fashion. </div></div>BoD elections just held....150 votes out of some 600+ members...postage provided /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

Open members meeting at banquet.....20-30 members in attendance /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

Expecting to get feedback from all the members...........Priceless /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

hooligan120
11-19-2006, 11:43 AM
Appears to be feedback streaming in now.

hooligan120
11-19-2006, 11:43 AM
Appears to be feedback streaming in now.

Tim Chason
11-19-2006, 12:55 PM
Nancey I have allready sent a PM to Bill, Walter Chris. If you where an expert that use to mean something /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif Im with Roger sounds like a good time to hit some track days and get up to speed for 2008. Everybody knows how I feel on this subject /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif Hopefully I will see you guys at the third race /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif That really dosent matter eighter because by then I wouldnt have a chance to win a novice championship and become a legitament expert /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif A very unhappy member /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif TIIIMMMMY

Tim Chason
11-19-2006, 12:55 PM
Nancey I have allready sent a PM to Bill, Walter Chris. If you where an expert that use to mean something /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif Im with Roger sounds like a good time to hit some track days and get up to speed for 2008. Everybody knows how I feel on this subject /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif Hopefully I will see you guys at the third race /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif That really dosent matter eighter because by then I wouldnt have a chance to win a novice championship and become a legitament expert /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif A very unhappy member /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif TIIIMMMMY

txsilverR6
11-19-2006, 02:02 PM
I've petitioned the complete BOD....and await my individual correspondence that was supposed to happen based on the minutes of the recent BOD meeting.

txsilverR6
11-19-2006, 02:02 PM
I've petitioned the complete BOD....and await my individual correspondence that was supposed to happen based on the minutes of the recent BOD meeting.

Roger Albert
11-19-2006, 03:12 PM
Let me be clear. I dont' want to sound like a "take my marbles and run home: kind of kind of kid. I really like the CMRA and will likely be back regardless of the disposition of any appeal. I may focus on minis within the club and practice my big bike stuff at trackday until I'm actually good enough, but I'm certainly not planning on stomping off and pouting. I don't want to be lumped in with anything that could sound like that. Seems unseamly. I just want to be safe, and not drop from the lower 15th percentile to the lower 5. I won't plug up the board with any more babbling.

Roger Albert
11-19-2006, 03:12 PM
Let me be clear. I dont' want to sound like a "take my marbles and run home: kind of kind of kid. I really like the CMRA and will likely be back regardless of the disposition of any appeal. I may focus on minis within the club and practice my big bike stuff at trackday until I'm actually good enough, but I'm certainly not planning on stomping off and pouting. I don't want to be lumped in with anything that could sound like that. Seems unseamly. I just want to be safe, and not drop from the lower 15th percentile to the lower 5. I won't plug up the board with any more babbling.

Nancy Selleck
11-19-2006, 03:35 PM
I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't clear: SEND ME AN EMAIL WITH YOUR APPEAL LETTER AND I WILL POST IT TO THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS.

They will discuss it on the Board of Directors page and then respond to you personally.

Sending PMs and emails to each director just confuses the issue...they have no way of discussing it when you send it to each one individually.

Nancy Selleck
11-19-2006, 03:35 PM
I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't clear: SEND ME AN EMAIL WITH YOUR APPEAL LETTER AND I WILL POST IT TO THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS.

They will discuss it on the Board of Directors page and then respond to you personally.

Sending PMs and emails to each director just confuses the issue...they have no way of discussing it when you send it to each one individually.

Gary Giarratano
11-19-2006, 03:55 PM
I'm not one of the riders on the additional rookie expert list, but I find the decision of the BOD inconsistent with previous decisions as well as the rules. Why do we even have a rule book?

Nathan Gardner's point about safety should be emphasized. Plus, some of these riders are not ready to move up and thus will be routinely lapped. How is this “fun” for them?

If the board is going to entertain appeals from the list of “additional rookie experts”, they should do so immediately; not after two races. To make these riders wait two races would be very unfair to them.

If these riders have to wait two races and subsequently win an appeal, they will miss the points they could have earned if they were allowed to compete in the novice class from the beginning of the season. Additionally, such a practice would also give an unfair points advantage to other novices who earned points in the first two races. Everybody knows how hard it is to win or place decently if you don’t have a perfect attendance record.

Certainly “regular rookie experts” promoted in accordance with the standing rule book should have to wait two races before appealing to move to the novice class, but these “additional rookie experts” are being punished because of the lack of consideration of all of the effects of the BOD’s decision and a disregard for the rule book.

The comment about “Much of the fun amongst the promoted novices was lost when they found themselves racing alone in the expert class” is simply not valid. I am being promoted under the normal rules and so are those novice riders who ran close or better lap times than I did. I don’t see how anyone could be moving up to expert status alone…

The BOD needs to meet again and reconsider entertaining appeals from this list of “additional rookie experts” who don’t want to move up. Anything less would be unreasonable to these riders who didn’t meet the rule book requirements regarding advancement. Again, why do we have a rule book?

Gary Giarratano
11-19-2006, 03:55 PM
I'm not one of the riders on the additional rookie expert list, but I find the decision of the BOD inconsistent with previous decisions as well as the rules. Why do we even have a rule book?

Nathan Gardner's point about safety should be emphasized. Plus, some of these riders are not ready to move up and thus will be routinely lapped. How is this “fun” for them?

If the board is going to entertain appeals from the list of “additional rookie experts”, they should do so immediately; not after two races. To make these riders wait two races would be very unfair to them.

If these riders have to wait two races and subsequently win an appeal, they will miss the points they could have earned if they were allowed to compete in the novice class from the beginning of the season. Additionally, such a practice would also give an unfair points advantage to other novices who earned points in the first two races. Everybody knows how hard it is to win or place decently if you don’t have a perfect attendance record.

Certainly “regular rookie experts” promoted in accordance with the standing rule book should have to wait two races before appealing to move to the novice class, but these “additional rookie experts” are being punished because of the lack of consideration of all of the effects of the BOD’s decision and a disregard for the rule book.

The comment about “Much of the fun amongst the promoted novices was lost when they found themselves racing alone in the expert class” is simply not valid. I am being promoted under the normal rules and so are those novice riders who ran close or better lap times than I did. I don’t see how anyone could be moving up to expert status alone…

The BOD needs to meet again and reconsider entertaining appeals from this list of “additional rookie experts” who don’t want to move up. Anything less would be unreasonable to these riders who didn’t meet the rule book requirements regarding advancement. Again, why do we have a rule book?

Tim Chason
11-19-2006, 04:06 PM
Roger dont worrie we never walked in the same line anyway :p Once again Im NOT UPSET TO BE EXPERT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im upset I was told I would stay novice over a month ago. On what the BOD told me and anounced to the hole club I made decissions on what classes to race and what bikes to purchase. I cant go to where I purchased these bikes and say opps sorry I need a 1000 NOW. I love racing in the CMRA /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif All year long I have listen to the BOD and staff talk about how they take so much pride in there decission making and how the club doesnt make rash decissions on changing of the club rules, Thats how come our club has been so successful. Up untill this point I agreed 100% /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif What really dosent sit well is the fact that this is not a rule and there where no standards on witch the choices where made. On top of the fact the BOD public stated the new experts have allready been moved up and if you are not .6 or higher you would not be moved up period!!!!!!!!!! If you cant see why this would up set me try this. Take about 20 to 25,000.000 dollars and burn it. Now I should be able to get some of my money back. However im gonna lose about 30% of it. Do the math thats about 7500.00 /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif Now if you asked repetly if you are going expert and even talked down to for asking so many times. How would you feel? Forget the fact that you lost 7500.00 dollars /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif TIIIMMMMY
Originally Posted by Nancey Selleck
Administrator
Member # 331

Member Rated:
posted October 25, 2006 02:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please folks, read the first post of this thread!!

Riders with 0.6 and above (in bold below) are moved to Expert...not EVERYONE on this list. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

Tim Chason
11-19-2006, 04:06 PM
Roger dont worrie we never walked in the same line anyway :p Once again Im NOT UPSET TO BE EXPERT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im upset I was told I would stay novice over a month ago. On what the BOD told me and anounced to the hole club I made decissions on what classes to race and what bikes to purchase. I cant go to where I purchased these bikes and say opps sorry I need a 1000 NOW. I love racing in the CMRA /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif All year long I have listen to the BOD and staff talk about how they take so much pride in there decission making and how the club doesnt make rash decissions on changing of the club rules, Thats how come our club has been so successful. Up untill this point I agreed 100% /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif What really dosent sit well is the fact that this is not a rule and there where no standards on witch the choices where made. On top of the fact the BOD public stated the new experts have allready been moved up and if you are not .6 or higher you would not be moved up period!!!!!!!!!! If you cant see why this would up set me try this. Take about 20 to 25,000.000 dollars and burn it. Now I should be able to get some of my money back. However im gonna lose about 30% of it. Do the math thats about 7500.00 /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif Now if you asked repetly if you are going expert and even talked down to for asking so many times. How would you feel? Forget the fact that you lost 7500.00 dollars /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif TIIIMMMMY
Originally Posted by Nancey Selleck
Administrator
Member # 331

Member Rated:
posted October 25, 2006 02:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please folks, read the first post of this thread!!

Riders with 0.6 and above (in bold below) are moved to Expert...not EVERYONE on this list. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

Roger Albert
11-19-2006, 06:36 PM
> Roger dont worrie we never walked in the same line anyway [Razz]

True enough. You're a good egg even if you look funny anyway. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Roger Albert
11-19-2006, 06:36 PM
> Roger dont worrie we never walked in the same line anyway [Razz]

True enough. You're a good egg even if you look funny anyway. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Tim Chason
11-19-2006, 06:39 PM
/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif :p /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Tim Chason
11-19-2006, 06:39 PM
/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif :p /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Igal
11-19-2006, 09:06 PM
i didnt get my engraved invitation and thats ok. thanks for the bump, even though i didnt even make the original index list for lack of 15 sprints this year - i guess "crash or podium" was enough to get the bump.

unfortunately, i dont know if i will ever get over being listed on the same list as TIMMAY... :p

Igal
11-19-2006, 09:06 PM
i didnt get my engraved invitation and thats ok. thanks for the bump, even though i didnt even make the original index list for lack of 15 sprints this year - i guess "crash or podium" was enough to get the bump.

unfortunately, i dont know if i will ever get over being listed on the same list as TIMMAY... :p

Roger Albert
11-19-2006, 09:35 PM
Yes, it's quite a cross to bear.

Roger Albert
11-19-2006, 09:35 PM
Yes, it's quite a cross to bear.

JesseJohnson
11-20-2006, 10:09 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by David W Wilson:
Appears to be feedback streaming in now. </div></div>The feedback streaming in now is from a vocal minority (4 or 5 people) who A) didn't show up to the open meeting and B) are directly affected by the decision. I've learned in the last few years on the BOD that the vocal minority USUALLY complain only out of self interest. Those who are most productive send in suggestions and offer their help.

Jess

JesseJohnson
11-20-2006, 10:09 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by David W Wilson:
Appears to be feedback streaming in now. </div></div>The feedback streaming in now is from a vocal minority (4 or 5 people) who A) didn't show up to the open meeting and B) are directly affected by the decision. I've learned in the last few years on the BOD that the vocal minority USUALLY complain only out of self interest. Those who are most productive send in suggestions and offer their help.

Jess

SoReady600RR
11-20-2006, 10:09 AM
I can't wait!!!

SoReady600RR
11-20-2006, 10:09 AM
I can't wait!!!

Roger Albert
11-20-2006, 10:37 AM
You are wrong Jess. Some of us _were_ at the open board meeting. And some of us do try to help, and volunteer (extra corner working), donate, stay late and help the staff pack after events even. That latter certainly puts some of us in a minority. Not everyone who takes issue with something is a worthless whiner.

Roger Albert
11-20-2006, 10:37 AM
You are wrong Jess. Some of us _were_ at the open board meeting. And some of us do try to help, and volunteer (extra corner working), donate, stay late and help the staff pack after events even. That latter certainly puts some of us in a minority. Not everyone who takes issue with something is a worthless whiner.

Tim Chason
11-20-2006, 11:25 AM
Jess not sure if your on the BOD but it sounds like you speak for them. Jess if you call being told in a public form at least 10 times you will not be expert. You spend alot of money and time to make sure you stay with in the rules that the BOD has made. Then a month later in a blink of an eye the rules get thrown out I think you would be upset to. Jess lets get one thing straight I have donated thousands of dollars, many hours of my personal time and chased lots of donations all to make this club better for you and other members. I dont agree with this rulling and now Im an outcast,a whinner,a problem member /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif This truly hurts my feelings /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif So Jees take your trophys and all my donations and stik them straight up your A-- /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif TIIIMMMMY

Tim Chason
11-20-2006, 11:25 AM
Jess not sure if your on the BOD but it sounds like you speak for them. Jess if you call being told in a public form at least 10 times you will not be expert. You spend alot of money and time to make sure you stay with in the rules that the BOD has made. Then a month later in a blink of an eye the rules get thrown out I think you would be upset to. Jess lets get one thing straight I have donated thousands of dollars, many hours of my personal time and chased lots of donations all to make this club better for you and other members. I dont agree with this rulling and now Im an outcast,a whinner,a problem member /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif This truly hurts my feelings /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif So Jees take your trophys and all my donations and stik them straight up your A-- /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif TIIIMMMMY

gssbmm
11-20-2006, 11:46 AM
what I truly find to be a problem is the way in which the BOD or atleast the people who answer question in this forum claim to represent the BOD feel they should comunicate with members when they have a complait or question. I think a part of the responcibility of the people in charge is to not use inflamatory language to the members of this club. if your tired of hearing the same old questions then maybe it's time to abdigate your seat on the BOD and make room for people who understand the every yaer the club is going to have new member with the same questions as the new members last year. and these stances that anyone who does not just step in line is some how a bad member is truely sad. of course members are going to fight for there self intrest. last time I heard we don't have a union rep. then BOD on this forum and any other staff of the cmra should be working to be a calming force and the voice of reason as any choice they make should not have been fueled out of emotion but out of the best intrest of the club.

As to the topic at hand. moveing up more people after seting the list for the year over a month ago I do not think is fair. if you feel theses people would be better served as experts contact these people and ask them to move up. change the policy for next year to move up more people and have the rule book reflect that. personaly I think more people in the expert grids would be a good thing, but they way it's being gone about is bad.

btw I did vote, I could not make the banquet as I have a prior engagment and I have been and will be in the future more then willing to offer my help to our staff.

gssbmm
11-20-2006, 11:46 AM
what I truly find to be a problem is the way in which the BOD or atleast the people who answer question in this forum claim to represent the BOD feel they should comunicate with members when they have a complait or question. I think a part of the responcibility of the people in charge is to not use inflamatory language to the members of this club. if your tired of hearing the same old questions then maybe it's time to abdigate your seat on the BOD and make room for people who understand the every yaer the club is going to have new member with the same questions as the new members last year. and these stances that anyone who does not just step in line is some how a bad member is truely sad. of course members are going to fight for there self intrest. last time I heard we don't have a union rep. then BOD on this forum and any other staff of the cmra should be working to be a calming force and the voice of reason as any choice they make should not have been fueled out of emotion but out of the best intrest of the club.

As to the topic at hand. moveing up more people after seting the list for the year over a month ago I do not think is fair. if you feel theses people would be better served as experts contact these people and ask them to move up. change the policy for next year to move up more people and have the rule book reflect that. personaly I think more people in the expert grids would be a good thing, but they way it's being gone about is bad.

btw I did vote, I could not make the banquet as I have a prior engagment and I have been and will be in the future more then willing to offer my help to our staff.

Todd Gyure
11-20-2006, 12:48 PM
From Jess Johnson: [/QUOTE]"The feedback streaming in now is from a vocal minority (4 or 5 people) who A) didn't show up to the open meeting and B) are directly affected by the decision. I've learned in the last few years on the BOD that the vocal minority USUALLY complain only out of self interest. Those who are most productive send in suggestions and offer their help."

Nothing like inflammatory unfounded statements from a BOD member.

B) I am not affected by this decision to THROW OUT THE RULE BOOK, and do what the BOD wants to do. Many of the posts here are pointing out the fact that the BOD has told members NO to their requests for changes, etc., in the recent past, and sited the RULEBOOK as set in stone. (With the put 'your request in for rule changes for next yr' slogan in place)

Like others posting here I have donated my time at Oakhill to improve a track that I nor the CMRA owns. I have worked for free promoting the club at the CMRA booth a cycleshows, and TX Stadium. I have donated items for auction at many awards banquets. I have provided a free spot on my endurance team for three yrs to a young up and coming CMRA racer. I have donated $$$ to the air fence fund, etc., etc., blah blah blah. But according to Jess I have done nothing but complain for self interest(s).

Generalizations: PRICELESS.

TIMMMY: WELCOME TO EXPERT SUKA!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :p

Todd Gyure
11-20-2006, 12:48 PM
From Jess Johnson: [/QUOTE]"The feedback streaming in now is from a vocal minority (4 or 5 people) who A) didn't show up to the open meeting and B) are directly affected by the decision. I've learned in the last few years on the BOD that the vocal minority USUALLY complain only out of self interest. Those who are most productive send in suggestions and offer their help."

Nothing like inflammatory unfounded statements from a BOD member.

B) I am not affected by this decision to THROW OUT THE RULE BOOK, and do what the BOD wants to do. Many of the posts here are pointing out the fact that the BOD has told members NO to their requests for changes, etc., in the recent past, and sited the RULEBOOK as set in stone. (With the put 'your request in for rule changes for next yr' slogan in place)

Like others posting here I have donated my time at Oakhill to improve a track that I nor the CMRA owns. I have worked for free promoting the club at the CMRA booth a cycleshows, and TX Stadium. I have donated items for auction at many awards banquets. I have provided a free spot on my endurance team for three yrs to a young up and coming CMRA racer. I have donated $$$ to the air fence fund, etc., etc., blah blah blah. But according to Jess I have done nothing but complain for self interest(s).

Generalizations: PRICELESS.

TIMMMY: WELCOME TO EXPERT SUKA!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :p

hooligan120
11-20-2006, 01:52 PM
It seems the messages posted her are trying to be a part of the solution rather than part of the problem, Mr Johnson.
Best solution I have read is from Stewart, advising to call the members on this new list & ask them to voluntarily move up to Expert.

hooligan120
11-20-2006, 01:52 PM
It seems the messages posted her are trying to be a part of the solution rather than part of the problem, Mr Johnson.
Best solution I have read is from Stewart, advising to call the members on this new list & ask them to voluntarily move up to Expert.

Keith Hertell
11-20-2006, 01:56 PM
Hmm, I think all anyone has to do is submit the friggin request to stay novice to the board.

Then wait and see what happens. Easy! IMHO MOFOS!!!

Keith Hertell
11-20-2006, 01:56 PM
Hmm, I think all anyone has to do is submit the friggin request to stay novice to the board.

Then wait and see what happens. Easy! IMHO MOFOS!!!

hooligan120
11-20-2006, 02:06 PM
How about make everyone an expert.

hooligan120
11-20-2006, 02:06 PM
How about make everyone an expert.

11-20-2006, 02:37 PM
I realize that if Roger got bumped then I really have nothing to complain about /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif ... however, I do think that the more inclusive criteria should have been implemented for 2007 as originally planned and not sprung on us now.

That's all I have to say I guess. I'm glad I at least got to stand on the podium one time as a novice... a 3rd in SSD with 6 entries, the very last race of the year :-\

11-20-2006, 02:37 PM
I realize that if Roger got bumped then I really have nothing to complain about /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif ... however, I do think that the more inclusive criteria should have been implemented for 2007 as originally planned and not sprung on us now.

That's all I have to say I guess. I'm glad I at least got to stand on the podium one time as a novice... a 3rd in SSD with 6 entries, the very last race of the year :-\

Roger Albert
11-20-2006, 02:55 PM
Thanks David /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Roger Albert
11-20-2006, 02:55 PM
Thanks David /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

JesseJohnson
11-20-2006, 03:05 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Todd E. Gyure:
From Jess Johnson: </div></div>"The feedback streaming in now is from a vocal minority (4 or 5 people) who A) didn't show up to the open meeting and B) are directly affected by the decision. I've learned in the last few years on the BOD that the vocal minority USUALLY complain only out of self interest. Those who are most productive send in suggestions and offer their help."

Nothing like inflammatory unfounded statements from a BOD member.

B) I am not affected by this decision to THROW OUT THE RULE BOOK, and do what the BOD wants to do. Many of the posts here are pointing out the fact that the BOD has told members NO to their requests for changes, etc., in the recent past, and sited the RULEBOOK as set in stone. (With the put 'your request in for rule changes for next yr' slogan in place)

Like others posting here I have donated my time at Oakhill to improve a track that I nor the CMRA owns. I have worked for free promoting the club at the CMRA booth a cycleshows, and TX Stadium. I have donated items for auction at many awards banquets. I have provided a free spot on my endurance team for three yrs to a young up and coming CMRA racer. I have donated $$$ to the air fence fund, etc., etc., blah blah blah. But according to Jess I have done nothing but complain for self interest(s).

Generalizations: PRICELESS.

TIMMMY: WELCOME TO EXPERT SUKA!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :p [/QUOTE]


Man Todd you kill me! I did post "USUALLY" in my generalization statement because there is 20% of the people who don't qualify. Guess you might be the 1 out of this group of 5 or 6! There's always someone who has a legit beef. My anecdotal evidence is from my experience over the last 3 years on the BOD, and 10+ years with the TSBA and CMRA.

You are acting like this decision to promote the additional riders is a violation of the rulebook. All the rulebook says is that the BOD will determine the number of riders to promote. Riders with an index above the annouced number will be automatically promoted. We revised the announced number in response to the member meeting, as well as take a look at a few other people who we felt fell through the rider index crack.

We also don't have a good system for promoting people out of the endurance-only crowd. How should we handle them?

JesseJohnson
11-20-2006, 03:05 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Todd E. Gyure:
From Jess Johnson: </div></div>"The feedback streaming in now is from a vocal minority (4 or 5 people) who A) didn't show up to the open meeting and B) are directly affected by the decision. I've learned in the last few years on the BOD that the vocal minority USUALLY complain only out of self interest. Those who are most productive send in suggestions and offer their help."

Nothing like inflammatory unfounded statements from a BOD member.

B) I am not affected by this decision to THROW OUT THE RULE BOOK, and do what the BOD wants to do. Many of the posts here are pointing out the fact that the BOD has told members NO to their requests for changes, etc., in the recent past, and sited the RULEBOOK as set in stone. (With the put 'your request in for rule changes for next yr' slogan in place)

Like others posting here I have donated my time at Oakhill to improve a track that I nor the CMRA owns. I have worked for free promoting the club at the CMRA booth a cycleshows, and TX Stadium. I have donated items for auction at many awards banquets. I have provided a free spot on my endurance team for three yrs to a young up and coming CMRA racer. I have donated $$$ to the air fence fund, etc., etc., blah blah blah. But according to Jess I have done nothing but complain for self interest(s).

Generalizations: PRICELESS.

TIMMMY: WELCOME TO EXPERT SUKA!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :p [/QUOTE]


Man Todd you kill me! I did post "USUALLY" in my generalization statement because there is 20% of the people who don't qualify. Guess you might be the 1 out of this group of 5 or 6! There's always someone who has a legit beef. My anecdotal evidence is from my experience over the last 3 years on the BOD, and 10+ years with the TSBA and CMRA.

You are acting like this decision to promote the additional riders is a violation of the rulebook. All the rulebook says is that the BOD will determine the number of riders to promote. Riders with an index above the annouced number will be automatically promoted. We revised the announced number in response to the member meeting, as well as take a look at a few other people who we felt fell through the rider index crack.

We also don't have a good system for promoting people out of the endurance-only crowd. How should we handle them?

Todd Gyure
11-20-2006, 03:05 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Keith Hertell #11:
Hmm, I think all anyone has to do is submit the friggin request to stay novice to the board.

Then wait and see what happens. Easy! IMHO MOFOS!!! </div></div>Ya, EASY if you do not care about a big fat zero for the 1st two rounds of '07 MOFO! :p

Todd Gyure
11-20-2006, 03:05 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Keith Hertell #11:
Hmm, I think all anyone has to do is submit the friggin request to stay novice to the board.

Then wait and see what happens. Easy! IMHO MOFOS!!! </div></div>Ya, EASY if you do not care about a big fat zero for the 1st two rounds of '07 MOFO! :p

Todd Gyure
11-20-2006, 03:08 PM
Jess, I think we (BOD) should insult them until they leave the club. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :p

Todd Gyure
11-20-2006, 03:08 PM
Jess, I think we (BOD) should insult them until they leave the club. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :p

11-20-2006, 03:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Jess Johnson:
We also don't have a good system for promoting people out of the endurance-only crowd. How should we handle them? </div></div>I know this is neither scientific, nor an actual system, but... most of the time we KNOW the endurance guys who should be an expert and need only to ask around to find out their laptimes.


Unless they use an assumed name and don the fake nose & mustache glasses... but that would just be low /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

11-20-2006, 03:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Jess Johnson:
We also don't have a good system for promoting people out of the endurance-only crowd. How should we handle them? </div></div>I know this is neither scientific, nor an actual system, but... most of the time we KNOW the endurance guys who should be an expert and need only to ask around to find out their laptimes.


Unless they use an assumed name and don the fake nose & mustache glasses... but that would just be low /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Tim Chason
11-20-2006, 03:39 PM
Every body listen Im not mad to be expert.I mad that I was told many times I would not be an expert in 2007. Not maybe it was NO! Not we are gonna move more up it was NO! OK now that Im not going to be expert can I race this bike in this class? YES Can I race this bike in this class? Tim read the rule book it has all your anwers. OK thanks. I spent a ton of money on bikes to try to win a championship. If I new I was gonna be an expert I would have not spent as much money. It doesnt make since to me to spend a bus load of money to race at the back with my friends or for fun as the BOD put it. Keith I have allredy filled my protest. I have allready been told by Chris not to expect no sampathy from him because he has been running in the back for over a year. Chris the difference is you where moved up according to the rule book. Your rider index was over .6 If my index was over .6 you would not hear a word from me. To be told one thing and then do another that doesnt sit well. Not only financially but mentally. At this point Im tired of beating my head against a door that will never open. This makes me very sad. TIIIMMMMY

Tim Chason
11-20-2006, 03:39 PM
Every body listen Im not mad to be expert.I mad that I was told many times I would not be an expert in 2007. Not maybe it was NO! Not we are gonna move more up it was NO! OK now that Im not going to be expert can I race this bike in this class? YES Can I race this bike in this class? Tim read the rule book it has all your anwers. OK thanks. I spent a ton of money on bikes to try to win a championship. If I new I was gonna be an expert I would have not spent as much money. It doesnt make since to me to spend a bus load of money to race at the back with my friends or for fun as the BOD put it. Keith I have allredy filled my protest. I have allready been told by Chris not to expect no sampathy from him because he has been running in the back for over a year. Chris the difference is you where moved up according to the rule book. Your rider index was over .6 If my index was over .6 you would not hear a word from me. To be told one thing and then do another that doesnt sit well. Not only financially but mentally. At this point Im tired of beating my head against a door that will never open. This makes me very sad. TIIIMMMMY

Keith Hertell
11-20-2006, 03:45 PM
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA FRIGIN WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! LOL

Keith Hertell
11-20-2006, 03:45 PM
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA FRIGIN WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! LOL

Tim Chason
11-20-2006, 03:48 PM
Keith dont you have a cat to molest or somthing /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif TIIIMMMMY

Tim Chason
11-20-2006, 03:48 PM
Keith dont you have a cat to molest or somthing /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif TIIIMMMMY

Ronnie
11-20-2006, 03:58 PM
Tiiiimmmmyyyyyyyyy smells like feces x2!!!!! :p

Ronnie
11-20-2006, 03:58 PM
Tiiiimmmmyyyyyyyyy smells like feces x2!!!!! :p

Troy Green
11-20-2006, 05:46 PM
Tim,

You spent $25,000 on bikes to race as a Novice????
WTF!!!!!!

Dude, get yourself a $5,000 2003 R6, and spend the other $20,000 on riding schools and new tires as an EXPERT. You will be a much MUCH better rider because of it!

Troy

Troy Green
11-20-2006, 05:46 PM
Tim,

You spent $25,000 on bikes to race as a Novice????
WTF!!!!!!

Dude, get yourself a $5,000 2003 R6, and spend the other $20,000 on riding schools and new tires as an EXPERT. You will be a much MUCH better rider because of it!

Troy

Barry Nichols
11-20-2006, 09:15 PM
I'd like to teach the world to sing....in perfect harmony.........
I'd like to buy the world a coke and keep it company.......
Hmmmm..hmmm.hmmm......hmmm.hhmm..hmmm /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

Barry Nichols
11-20-2006, 09:15 PM
I'd like to teach the world to sing....in perfect harmony.........
I'd like to buy the world a coke and keep it company.......
Hmmmm..hmmm.hmmm......hmmm.hhmm..hmmm /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

Walter Walker
11-20-2006, 09:29 PM
Now that's funny, I don't care who you are, that's funny!!!

Walter Walker
11-20-2006, 09:29 PM
Now that's funny, I don't care who you are, that's funny!!!

Todd Gyure
11-21-2006, 12:12 AM
Ahh the old, tired, Coke song trotted out again/as usual. Yawn, boring. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

Timmmmy: Welcome to expert SUKA!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Todd Gyure
11-21-2006, 12:12 AM
Ahh the old, tired, Coke song trotted out again/as usual. Yawn, boring. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

Timmmmy: Welcome to expert SUKA!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Keith Hertell
11-21-2006, 11:30 AM
http://herecomestrouble.com.au/shop/images/Sucka_L.gif

Keith Hertell
11-21-2006, 11:30 AM

Keith Hertell
11-21-2006, 11:30 AM
http://herecomestrouble.com.au/shop/images/Sucka_L.gif

Keith Hertell
11-21-2006, 11:30 AM

Tim Chason
11-21-2006, 11:39 AM
Troy 06/999 12,000.00, 06/749s 7000.00, 03/monster 900 2800.00/ Ohlins superbike fork 8500.00 Olins R/T fork x 2 5800.00 Three rear shocks 2000.00 BLA BLA BLA Thats 38100.00 OUCH /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif I was gonna build some new minis also but now Im scared /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif TIIIMMMMY

Tim Chason
11-21-2006, 11:39 AM
Troy 06/999 12,000.00, 06/749s 7000.00, 03/monster 900 2800.00/ Ohlins superbike fork 8500.00 Olins R/T fork x 2 5800.00 Three rear shocks 2000.00 BLA BLA BLA Thats 38100.00 OUCH /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif I was gonna build some new minis also but now Im scared /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif TIIIMMMMY

Buddy Lohr
11-21-2006, 12:26 PM
Hey thanks for the bump! When I thought I was to be left behind I was pretty bummed at not getting to watch Suzette's pony tail dissapear around everone's favorite at Hallet or Heather part the crowd in the first turn like a cleaver thru a melon, or check out the inscription Cathy wears. And no Cathy, they don't. Now I also have a shot at keeping the competition going with Chris Accardo. But if all else fails, and I find myself at the back of the pack, I can always check out the fine stable of bikes Timmy will be fielding!
Deserving or no, thanks!

Buddy Lohr
11-21-2006, 12:26 PM
Hey thanks for the bump! When I thought I was to be left behind I was pretty bummed at not getting to watch Suzette's pony tail dissapear around everone's favorite at Hallet or Heather part the crowd in the first turn like a cleaver thru a melon, or check out the inscription Cathy wears. And no Cathy, they don't. Now I also have a shot at keeping the competition going with Chris Accardo. But if all else fails, and I find myself at the back of the pack, I can always check out the fine stable of bikes Timmy will be fielding!
Deserving or no, thanks!

Executioner
11-21-2006, 01:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Troy 06/999 12,000.00, 06/749s 7000.00, 03/monster 900 2800.00/ Ohlins superbike fork 8500.00 Olins R/T fork x 2 5800.00 Three rear shocks 2000.00 BLA BLA BLA Thats 38100.00 OUCH I was gonna build some new minis also but now Im scared TIIIMMMMY
</div></div>Holy cow, Timmuh! You ARE going all out... No offense but at our level money is better spent in seat time than on bling-bling /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Getting bumped up to Expert honors me, but to get bumped up Expert 2nd class is somewhat not the same.

Executioner
11-21-2006, 01:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Troy 06/999 12,000.00, 06/749s 7000.00, 03/monster 900 2800.00/ Ohlins superbike fork 8500.00 Olins R/T fork x 2 5800.00 Three rear shocks 2000.00 BLA BLA BLA Thats 38100.00 OUCH I was gonna build some new minis also but now Im scared TIIIMMMMY
</div></div>Holy cow, Timmuh! You ARE going all out... No offense but at our level money is better spent in seat time than on bling-bling /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Getting bumped up to Expert honors me, but to get bumped up Expert 2nd class is somewhat not the same.

Todd Gyure
11-21-2006, 03:11 PM
Hey Timmmmy no offense, but spend yo money on BAAAD Duc Racing rather than on yo own bikes. YO money will be much better spent than on seat time or tires as others have belched! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Welcome to expert suka! Its a lose-lose for ya now. If you stay novice now, and win a bunch of novice races everyone will say u a sand bagger, and the BOD was right to move you to expert. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Welcome to the CMRA!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Todd Gyure
11-21-2006, 03:11 PM
Hey Timmmmy no offense, but spend yo money on BAAAD Duc Racing rather than on yo own bikes. YO money will be much better spent than on seat time or tires as others have belched! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Welcome to expert suka! Its a lose-lose for ya now. If you stay novice now, and win a bunch of novice races everyone will say u a sand bagger, and the BOD was right to move you to expert. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Welcome to the CMRA!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Roger Albert
11-21-2006, 03:30 PM
Hey Buddy, if they let you put a rearview mirror on your bike, you can still see me for the first lap or so too /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Roger Albert
11-21-2006, 03:30 PM
Hey Buddy, if they let you put a rearview mirror on your bike, you can still see me for the first lap or so too /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Charlie T
11-22-2006, 01:53 PM
WOW !!!!! I could be wrong or just plain ole stupid…But it seems to me that most of the people in the CMRA that race motorcycles are probably competitors and want to WIN races…Or atleast get on the podium…Pick up some trophy’s…Run up at the front of the pack…At the very least feel they have a shot at winning a race.

So you start out as a novice…Probably running mid pack if you are lucky…You practice, go to the races and you finishes start getting better…Are you winning races ??? Probably not…Are you on the podium ??? Nope…Getting some contingency money ??? No…Getting to run up front and being able to see the top 3 riders go across the finish line ??? Nope.

So you finish your novice year without running up front…You do not even come close to winning a race…Never have the top three riders in your sights…Maybe crack the top 10 in a few races.

So you finish the year below the .6 rider index and figure okay I might just have a chance after making improvements through the year to run up front…Maybe get a podium finish…Might even win some contingency money…Shucks you might even have a chance at…Should I dare ??? What the hell…WIN a race ???

But hold the phone…The BOD decides to change the rule and bump you up even though you finished the year according to the rule book in a way that would have left you a novice.

So here you are…Bumped up to expert…Thoughts of running up front dancing through your head ??? I don’t think so…Shot at winning a race ???…Right down the tubes with the .6 rider index.

I don’t think should would come as a big surprise that some of the riders that got bumped up to expert after thinking they would remain novices are upset.

It is just my opinion but it would seem to me the BOD might understand why some of the affected riders are upset…Rules are rules and some of the statements in this thread show a pretty calloused attitude towards the affected riders being bumped.

But hey that is just my opinion…Changing the rules and then telling the guys who are affected to shut up and quit voicing their displeasure, seems well…Why don’t you just fill in the adjectives.

Seems they should be able to voice their displeasure about anything happening in the club without having the BOD belittling them…Or make condescending statements to said riders.

Now where are those flame resistant drawers…I can feel the flames…But hey just my 2 cents.

Charlie T
11-22-2006, 01:53 PM
WOW !!!!! I could be wrong or just plain ole stupid…But it seems to me that most of the people in the CMRA that race motorcycles are probably competitors and want to WIN races…Or atleast get on the podium…Pick up some trophy’s…Run up at the front of the pack…At the very least feel they have a shot at winning a race.

So you start out as a novice…Probably running mid pack if you are lucky…You practice, go to the races and you finishes start getting better…Are you winning races ??? Probably not…Are you on the podium ??? Nope…Getting some contingency money ??? No…Getting to run up front and being able to see the top 3 riders go across the finish line ??? Nope.

So you finish your novice year without running up front…You do not even come close to winning a race…Never have the top three riders in your sights…Maybe crack the top 10 in a few races.

So you finish the year below the .6 rider index and figure okay I might just have a chance after making improvements through the year to run up front…Maybe get a podium finish…Might even win some contingency money…Shucks you might even have a chance at…Should I dare ??? What the hell…WIN a race ???

But hold the phone…The BOD decides to change the rule and bump you up even though you finished the year according to the rule book in a way that would have left you a novice.

So here you are…Bumped up to expert…Thoughts of running up front dancing through your head ??? I don’t think so…Shot at winning a race ???…Right down the tubes with the .6 rider index.

I don’t think should would come as a big surprise that some of the riders that got bumped up to expert after thinking they would remain novices are upset.

It is just my opinion but it would seem to me the BOD might understand why some of the affected riders are upset…Rules are rules and some of the statements in this thread show a pretty calloused attitude towards the affected riders being bumped.

But hey that is just my opinion…Changing the rules and then telling the guys who are affected to shut up and quit voicing their displeasure, seems well…Why don’t you just fill in the adjectives.

Seems they should be able to voice their displeasure about anything happening in the club without having the BOD belittling them…Or make condescending statements to said riders.

Now where are those flame resistant drawers…I can feel the flames…But hey just my 2 cents.

Jason Keene
11-22-2006, 03:55 PM
ERRRRRRR... Must resist urge to.....

Arrrrrgggghhhh......

When I started I had dreams of becoming an expert... ARgggghhhh must not knee cap every one...

Pay your fees and race ARRRgggghhhh have so many things I want to ssss......


ARGGGGGGhhhhhh I LIKE KITTENS With Garlic and pepper...


ERrrrrrr


I don't have anything nice to say... so I'm going to stop...

Jason Keene
11-22-2006, 03:55 PM
ERRRRRRR... Must resist urge to.....

Arrrrrgggghhhh......

When I started I had dreams of becoming an expert... ARgggghhhh must not knee cap every one...

Pay your fees and race ARRRgggghhhh have so many things I want to ssss......


ARGGGGGGhhhhhh I LIKE KITTENS With Garlic and pepper...


ERrrrrrr


I don't have anything nice to say... so I'm going to stop...

keggert
11-22-2006, 07:36 PM
Hey Tim, I hate to inform you, but Chris never made the .6 rider index. And no, he didn't petition to become a white plate either. You can pm me if you want to know.

Kevin

keggert
11-22-2006, 07:36 PM
Hey Tim, I hate to inform you, but Chris never made the .6 rider index. And no, he didn't petition to become a white plate either. You can pm me if you want to know.

Kevin

Nate Weber
11-22-2006, 08:19 PM
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb302.gif http://www.cybergifs.com/faces/blahblah.gif

I contested twice and was shot down twice. Trust me, they know what they are doing! Shortly you will grow to be very happy that you're not in the novice super smash class. The expert class really needs more racers and you'll find you will always have some one to race against.

Congrats to all of you!!!

Nate Weber
11-22-2006, 08:19 PM
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb302.gif http://www.cybergifs.com/faces/blahblah.gif

I contested twice and was shot down twice. Trust me, they know what they are doing! Shortly you will grow to be very happy that you're not in the novice super smash class. The expert class really needs more racers and you'll find you will always have some one to race against.

Congrats to all of you!!!

Keith Hertell
11-22-2006, 08:55 PM
Too many Novice's!!!

Must make more Experts, so as not to hear so much BS!!!

Keith Hertell
11-22-2006, 08:55 PM
Too many Novice's!!!

Must make more Experts, so as not to hear so much BS!!!

Walter Walker
11-22-2006, 10:46 PM
I keep hearing that the BOD changed the rules.

Can someone tell me what rules were changed?

This is what the 2006 CMRA Rule Book has to say about the Rider Index.

The Novice rider must have entered at least 15 races to be included in consideration for advancement. The CMRA Board of Directors will determine the number of Novice riders to be advanced each season, and the Rider Index will be announced following the last race of each season. Riders with a Rider Index at and above the announced Rider Index are automatically moved up to Expert the following year.

It's clear that the BOD set's the "Rider Index" # at the end of each season.
So let's stop this "The BOD changed the rules" stuff.
The Index # should and will change each season.

For those that argue "You can't make me an Expert because I haven't won a Novice race yet".
If that were one of the requirements to be an Expert then most would never be promoted.
There have been several Expert champions that never scored a win as a Novice.
I can tell you from experience that most will rise to the competition.

I think it's time to put this to bed and start getting ready to race.

We only have 86 days left until the first event of 2007. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Walter Walker
11-22-2006, 10:46 PM
I keep hearing that the BOD changed the rules.

Can someone tell me what rules were changed?

This is what the 2006 CMRA Rule Book has to say about the Rider Index.

The Novice rider must have entered at least 15 races to be included in consideration for advancement. The CMRA Board of Directors will determine the number of Novice riders to be advanced each season, and the Rider Index will be announced following the last race of each season. Riders with a Rider Index at and above the announced Rider Index are automatically moved up to Expert the following year.

It's clear that the BOD set's the "Rider Index" # at the end of each season.
So let's stop this "The BOD changed the rules" stuff.
The Index # should and will change each season.

For those that argue "You can't make me an Expert because I haven't won a Novice race yet".
If that were one of the requirements to be an Expert then most would never be promoted.
There have been several Expert champions that never scored a win as a Novice.
I can tell you from experience that most will rise to the competition.

I think it's time to put this to bed and start getting ready to race.

We only have 86 days left until the first event of 2007. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Christopher Corder
11-23-2006, 09:07 AM
Things I have learned from this thread:

1. BOTH membership and club management have horrible reading comprehension skills.
2. People have zero compassion for the plight and challenges of others.
3. The management of this club has grown so tired of the people who support it that they have virtually zero patience for anything.
4. Almost nobody is sharp enough to realize that this mess was created not by the act of bumping additional riders but rather by the way it was done.

I manage people's perception for a living. Perception is reality to the perceiver. Until somebody learns to manage the perception of the members (CUSTOMERS) you will continue to see threads like this one. And for what it is worth, if I saw this thread before I joined, I would be figuring out my WERA schedule right now.

I agree with bumping more experts and said so at the board meeting. It just should have been a little more subjective, especially with some of the marginal riders who were getting bumped.

Christopher Corder
11-23-2006, 09:07 AM
Things I have learned from this thread:

1. BOTH membership and club management have horrible reading comprehension skills.
2. People have zero compassion for the plight and challenges of others.
3. The management of this club has grown so tired of the people who support it that they have virtually zero patience for anything.
4. Almost nobody is sharp enough to realize that this mess was created not by the act of bumping additional riders but rather by the way it was done.

I manage people's perception for a living. Perception is reality to the perceiver. Until somebody learns to manage the perception of the members (CUSTOMERS) you will continue to see threads like this one. And for what it is worth, if I saw this thread before I joined, I would be figuring out my WERA schedule right now.

I agree with bumping more experts and said so at the board meeting. It just should have been a little more subjective, especially with some of the marginal riders who were getting bumped.

Ronnie
11-23-2006, 09:56 AM
"I manage people's perception for a living." - (C.C.)

Soooooooo, does this mean you are a "con-man" by trade ???????? :p /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Ronnie

Ronnie
11-23-2006, 09:56 AM
"I manage people's perception for a living." - (C.C.)

Soooooooo, does this mean you are a "con-man" by trade ???????? :p /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Ronnie

Chris Kotowski
11-23-2006, 10:19 AM
Thanks Chris,
As I have no people skills I'll just say what I need to and get on with having thanks for the things I do have. Everyone bumped has an appeals process they can follow if they choose. Those procedures are in the rulebook. The same rulebook oft quoted but seldom read.

Laptimes, position on grid and at the checkered flag, improvement over the course of the year, safety at speed as well as the rider’s index, are the objective things that went into the decision to bump or not. How I feel about someone’s riding or some other unquantifiable criteria did not sway me or the others who where voted into office to serve the club to the best of their abilities. If we're not doing right by the club vote for those you feel can do it better and then support them, or run yourself next year.

The comment on WERA noted.

Welcome to the new experts

Chris Kotowski
11-23-2006, 10:19 AM
Thanks Chris,
As I have no people skills I'll just say what I need to and get on with having thanks for the things I do have. Everyone bumped has an appeals process they can follow if they choose. Those procedures are in the rulebook. The same rulebook oft quoted but seldom read.

Laptimes, position on grid and at the checkered flag, improvement over the course of the year, safety at speed as well as the rider’s index, are the objective things that went into the decision to bump or not. How I feel about someone’s riding or some other unquantifiable criteria did not sway me or the others who where voted into office to serve the club to the best of their abilities. If we're not doing right by the club vote for those you feel can do it better and then support them, or run yourself next year.

The comment on WERA noted.

Welcome to the new experts

Christopher Corder
11-23-2006, 10:52 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Soooooooo, does this mean you are a "con-man" by trade ??????? </div></div>I AM in sales afterall. :p

Christopher Corder
11-23-2006, 10:52 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Soooooooo, does this mean you are a "con-man" by trade ??????? </div></div>I AM in sales afterall. :p

Christopher Corder
11-23-2006, 10:57 AM
BTW, I am SOOOOO pumped to be an expert. I raced as a novice for three years and I darn near won a race in the tundra back in February. I am excited about finally getting to actually race against Falt, the person who got me into this (along with Dad) in the first place.

The .6 is hard to get. I had good finishes in all three years but if you wad it and get hurt once a twice a year it really jacks you up. I have to say, I am very proud of finally reaching one of my personal goals. I set one each year.

Year 1: Live through the year (done).
Year 2: Finish top three in championship (done).
Year 3: Get white plates for christ sake (done).
This year: Do what it take to get an invite to the GNF.

I keep my expectations reasonable so I always walk away feeling like a champ. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Christopher Corder
11-23-2006, 10:57 AM
BTW, I am SOOOOO pumped to be an expert. I raced as a novice for three years and I darn near won a race in the tundra back in February. I am excited about finally getting to actually race against Falt, the person who got me into this (along with Dad) in the first place.

The .6 is hard to get. I had good finishes in all three years but if you wad it and get hurt once a twice a year it really jacks you up. I have to say, I am very proud of finally reaching one of my personal goals. I set one each year.

Year 1: Live through the year (done).
Year 2: Finish top three in championship (done).
Year 3: Get white plates for christ sake (done).
This year: Do what it take to get an invite to the GNF.

I keep my expectations reasonable so I always walk away feeling like a champ. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Barry Nichols
11-23-2006, 11:56 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by christophercorder325:
Things I have learned from this thread:

1. BOTH membership and club management have horrible reading comprehension skills.
2. People have zero compassion for the plight and challenges of others.
3. The management of this club has grown so tired of the people who support it that they have virtually zero patience for anything.
4. Almost nobody is sharp enough to realize that this mess was created not by the act of bumping additional riders but rather by the way it was done.

I manage people's perception for a living. Perception is reality to the perceiver. Until somebody learns to manage the perception of the members (CUSTOMERS) you will continue to see threads like this one. And for what it is worth, if I saw this thread before I joined, I would be figuring out my WERA schedule right now.

I agree with bumping more experts and said so at the board meeting. It just should have been a little more subjective, especially with some of the marginal riders who were getting bumped. </div></div>Chris,
You might be right, who's to say. But here is my perception. We are living in a Wal-Mart society. People have come to believe if they gripe enough they will get their way. I am sympathetic to the concerns these guys have and I will bet our BoD is as well; But any business has the right to change the rules to ensure to the prosperity of the business. I agree more thought should have been put into where the bar was set for advancement before the first announcement, but what is done is done. If I see anything in this thread it is a lack of respect for authority, not apathy by the management.

Barry Nichols
11-23-2006, 11:56 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by christophercorder325:
Things I have learned from this thread:

1. BOTH membership and club management have horrible reading comprehension skills.
2. People have zero compassion for the plight and challenges of others.
3. The management of this club has grown so tired of the people who support it that they have virtually zero patience for anything.
4. Almost nobody is sharp enough to realize that this mess was created not by the act of bumping additional riders but rather by the way it was done.

I manage people's perception for a living. Perception is reality to the perceiver. Until somebody learns to manage the perception of the members (CUSTOMERS) you will continue to see threads like this one. And for what it is worth, if I saw this thread before I joined, I would be figuring out my WERA schedule right now.

I agree with bumping more experts and said so at the board meeting. It just should have been a little more subjective, especially with some of the marginal riders who were getting bumped. </div></div>Chris,
You might be right, who's to say. But here is my perception. We are living in a Wal-Mart society. People have come to believe if they gripe enough they will get their way. I am sympathetic to the concerns these guys have and I will bet our BoD is as well; But any business has the right to change the rules to ensure to the prosperity of the business. I agree more thought should have been put into where the bar was set for advancement before the first announcement, but what is done is done. If I see anything in this thread it is a lack of respect for authority, not apathy by the management.

Frank Newman
11-23-2006, 09:25 PM
There seems to be a sense of entitlement present in some. The thought is that if I join CMRA, I should be put on a path that leads to top 3 finishes consistently and has a good chance to result in a novice class championship. That's not what I perceive CMRA or any racing to be about and I don't like the thought of it. There are no participant ribbons to make everyone feel like a "Winner". We keep score. Someone wins and some other dont't - some don't win now by might later and some never will win or even do well at any level in any endeavour.
Look at the AMA grids, the MotoGP grids, the 125 Juniors MX - most of the racers know there is a handful of go-fast guys who have a chance and the others are trying for personal bests and improvements. I raced MX when I was younger and had one win. I eventually got to the point where I thought I would be top four or five, depending, and might get a crappy, cheap trophy (I still have all of them). That was good for me but no one owed me any of it.
In CMRA I amazed myself by reaching the head of the pack. Part of it was using a check book to buy the power that got me there but there was some rider improvement. No one owed me this and I could have continued into the future without getting to mid pack and still accomplished my goal - having fun riding a motorbike faster than is really safe and trying always to go faster.
As a 58 year old "Expert" on a beautiful, new 600 I have high expectations for fun and no expectations of being "competitive". There will be someone in the back who I will play with and it will be GOOD!

I identify with and sympathize with Tim because I can see myself studying the results to find the class where I could have the best chance to succeed and then charging forward with checks flying only to find that those same bikes put you in an Expert class where you have no chance. BUT, you have no chance maybe in 2007. Tim and a lot of you do have a chance in the future to be successful in Experts. Get a good bike, keep it good, spend money on tires and practice like Troy Green said and who knows where you will go. Be very grateful you have the racer mentality to get out there and do things that would paralyze others with fear. Be very glad you have the age, health, strength to help you improve. Things can change in the twinkling of an eye so grab what you can.

As I said, I'm 58 and my attitude is that they'll have to pry the throttle out of my cold, dead fingers before I'll quit and before I'll quit trying to catch the guy in front of my. I don't care what class it is.

The Board is listening more attentively than you can imagine and the message has been received. Now,let's just race guys. Screw all this and just go have fun. Keep your day job and let's look forward to chopping up someone on the track.

One last thing before I stop this uncharacteristic post. Roger Albert - I don't ever again want to hear you down yourself. Self-deprecation is a lot of my style too but there's a time and place to stop. You passed it many posts ago. You gotta start thinking "fast". You gotta get the Nick Danger, dangerous in the world of men attitude (thanks to Steve McQueen for those terms)

I picked up my bike from Mike Patterson this week. It's incredibly beautiful and has me wired to the max. It's going to be a great year!

Frank Newman
11-23-2006, 09:25 PM
There seems to be a sense of entitlement present in some. The thought is that if I join CMRA, I should be put on a path that leads to top 3 finishes consistently and has a good chance to result in a novice class championship. That's not what I perceive CMRA or any racing to be about and I don't like the thought of it. There are no participant ribbons to make everyone feel like a "Winner". We keep score. Someone wins and some other dont't - some don't win now by might later and some never will win or even do well at any level in any endeavour.
Look at the AMA grids, the MotoGP grids, the 125 Juniors MX - most of the racers know there is a handful of go-fast guys who have a chance and the others are trying for personal bests and improvements. I raced MX when I was younger and had one win. I eventually got to the point where I thought I would be top four or five, depending, and might get a crappy, cheap trophy (I still have all of them). That was good for me but no one owed me any of it.
In CMRA I amazed myself by reaching the head of the pack. Part of it was using a check book to buy the power that got me there but there was some rider improvement. No one owed me this and I could have continued into the future without getting to mid pack and still accomplished my goal - having fun riding a motorbike faster than is really safe and trying always to go faster.
As a 58 year old "Expert" on a beautiful, new 600 I have high expectations for fun and no expectations of being "competitive". There will be someone in the back who I will play with and it will be GOOD!

I identify with and sympathize with Tim because I can see myself studying the results to find the class where I could have the best chance to succeed and then charging forward with checks flying only to find that those same bikes put you in an Expert class where you have no chance. BUT, you have no chance maybe in 2007. Tim and a lot of you do have a chance in the future to be successful in Experts. Get a good bike, keep it good, spend money on tires and practice like Troy Green said and who knows where you will go. Be very grateful you have the racer mentality to get out there and do things that would paralyze others with fear. Be very glad you have the age, health, strength to help you improve. Things can change in the twinkling of an eye so grab what you can.

As I said, I'm 58 and my attitude is that they'll have to pry the throttle out of my cold, dead fingers before I'll quit and before I'll quit trying to catch the guy in front of my. I don't care what class it is.

The Board is listening more attentively than you can imagine and the message has been received. Now,let's just race guys. Screw all this and just go have fun. Keep your day job and let's look forward to chopping up someone on the track.

One last thing before I stop this uncharacteristic post. Roger Albert - I don't ever again want to hear you down yourself. Self-deprecation is a lot of my style too but there's a time and place to stop. You passed it many posts ago. You gotta start thinking "fast". You gotta get the Nick Danger, dangerous in the world of men attitude (thanks to Steve McQueen for those terms)

I picked up my bike from Mike Patterson this week. It's incredibly beautiful and has me wired to the max. It's going to be a great year!

Tim Chason
11-24-2006, 11:03 AM
All the riders should have been moved at once. Im sure the BOD will make the right choice. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I dont feel Im ready for expert. I would rather see a Intermediate class. They could race with the experts.TIIIMMMMY

Tim Chason
11-24-2006, 11:03 AM
All the riders should have been moved at once. Im sure the BOD will make the right choice. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I dont feel Im ready for expert. I would rather see a Intermediate class. They could race with the experts.TIIIMMMMY

Norm McDonald
11-24-2006, 01:51 PM
Tim this year they will have a
1st
2nd & 3rd place Rookie Expert award in each Expert class. It you are Rookie Ex and finish any where in the Expert class and you are the 1st 2nd or 3rd place Rookie you will get an award so there is an intermediate class if thats what you want to call it.

Norm McDonald
11-24-2006, 01:51 PM
Tim this year they will have a
1st
2nd & 3rd place Rookie Expert award in each Expert class. It you are Rookie Ex and finish any where in the Expert class and you are the 1st 2nd or 3rd place Rookie you will get an award so there is an intermediate class if thats what you want to call it.

Kevin
11-24-2006, 01:55 PM
I agree with Frank 100%. I raced for years and not only NEVER won but also could seldom even see the lead group. But I had the time of my life and always kept the corner workers amused with the 'flying frog' antics. It was not that I didn't want to win-I spent way to much to build really good stuff that I didn't have the talent to operate-I just was talent challenged. If all we can do is complain about not being the big dog, then we are missing the point-this supposed to be fun!!! If you are not having fun then you should find some other outlet where you can. I'm still having a GREAT time with this club and can't think of anything else that would give me this much life enhancing pleasure.

Pax, Kevin

Kevin
11-24-2006, 01:55 PM
I agree with Frank 100%. I raced for years and not only NEVER won but also could seldom even see the lead group. But I had the time of my life and always kept the corner workers amused with the 'flying frog' antics. It was not that I didn't want to win-I spent way to much to build really good stuff that I didn't have the talent to operate-I just was talent challenged. If all we can do is complain about not being the big dog, then we are missing the point-this supposed to be fun!!! If you are not having fun then you should find some other outlet where you can. I'm still having a GREAT time with this club and can't think of anything else that would give me this much life enhancing pleasure.

Pax, Kevin

Keith Hertell
11-24-2006, 04:27 PM
Lets get rid of Kelchers silly program of deciding the novices.

Lets go back to the top 5 or 10(whatever) in EVERY class getting bumped.

Keith Hertell
11-24-2006, 04:27 PM
Lets get rid of Kelchers silly program of deciding the novices.

Lets go back to the top 5 or 10(whatever) in EVERY class getting bumped.

Norm McDonald
11-24-2006, 04:44 PM
Ok Keith Your Expert next year.

Norm McDonald
11-24-2006, 04:44 PM
Ok Keith Your Expert next year.

Keith Hertell
11-24-2006, 06:32 PM
Doh! But I can't handle the PRESSURE, Norm.

Plus, I never won a Novice Championship.

Oh yea, I'm also old and fat.

Can I have an old and fat only class to race in.

Don't forget the Ugly class too.

I could win the Fat and Ugly Heavyweight class. (maybe)

Keith Hertell
11-24-2006, 06:32 PM
Doh! But I can't handle the PRESSURE, Norm.

Plus, I never won a Novice Championship.

Oh yea, I'm also old and fat.

Can I have an old and fat only class to race in.

Don't forget the Ugly class too.

I could win the Fat and Ugly Heavyweight class. (maybe)

Linz Leard
11-24-2006, 06:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Keith Hertell #11:
Can I have an old and fat only class to race in.</div></div>You want company? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Linz Leard
11-24-2006, 06:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Keith Hertell #11:
Can I have an old and fat only class to race in.</div></div>You want company? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Roger Albert
11-24-2006, 06:38 PM
Thanks for the advice Frank.
Now I feel bad for feeling bad about myself. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
Fwiw, I'm not aiming for self deprecation so much as stating an honest self eval and facts.

No worries. Seriously, I'm still having fun.
While it was more than a bit sobering to review my SV results (I'd been quite happy, apparently over-focusing on the mini stuff and improvement there) I'm not really down. I just know where I stand right now, which factually, is pretty far down the pecking order, as pertains to laptimes and finishes. No biggie. I'm neither down nor up about it. It is what it is, and one day, it will likely be better. I happen to think that it will be better sooner if I'm riding around a group of peers, or people a moderate amount faster than me. I very much appreciate, and believe the advice many experts have posted (thanks all), that riding around with faster experts can make you faster. But it seems to me you have to be riding around with them, to be riding around with them, if you'll excuse the MickeyMantle-ism. Since I'm most often way back by myself even in the novices, it stands to reason I can only be back still further in the expert ranks. That precludes the idea of improvement by proximity. Make sense? Anyway, I'm not trying to whine, or be all Mr. Downer. Just stating where I feel I belong, and why. I sent the board a letter on it and they'll decide and I'll abide. Simple as that. Thanks for the words at any rate.

Roger Albert
11-24-2006, 06:38 PM
Thanks for the advice Frank.
Now I feel bad for feeling bad about myself. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
Fwiw, I'm not aiming for self deprecation so much as stating an honest self eval and facts.

No worries. Seriously, I'm still having fun.
While it was more than a bit sobering to review my SV results (I'd been quite happy, apparently over-focusing on the mini stuff and improvement there) I'm not really down. I just know where I stand right now, which factually, is pretty far down the pecking order, as pertains to laptimes and finishes. No biggie. I'm neither down nor up about it. It is what it is, and one day, it will likely be better. I happen to think that it will be better sooner if I'm riding around a group of peers, or people a moderate amount faster than me. I very much appreciate, and believe the advice many experts have posted (thanks all), that riding around with faster experts can make you faster. But it seems to me you have to be riding around with them, to be riding around with them, if you'll excuse the MickeyMantle-ism. Since I'm most often way back by myself even in the novices, it stands to reason I can only be back still further in the expert ranks. That precludes the idea of improvement by proximity. Make sense? Anyway, I'm not trying to whine, or be all Mr. Downer. Just stating where I feel I belong, and why. I sent the board a letter on it and they'll decide and I'll abide. Simple as that. Thanks for the words at any rate.

Tim Chason
11-24-2006, 09:50 PM
Walter I have to disagree with you /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif The BOD anounced the new experts at the end of the season.Nancey even got a little frustrated after people keeped asking about the list. .6 or higher thats what we where told.[REPEATEDLY] Then almost a month later the list was changed. For some of us that didnt seat well. If I was told I would be expert from the start I would have felt alot different. What even made It more uncomfortable is the reasons. You cant honestly say lap times played a factor. Look at my lap times on my 600, and how about Rogers lap times on a XR100. Then it was so freinds can race together and have more fun /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Then it was the novice class is gonna be more like a PROVNOV. I AGREE 100% that the current system needs to be changed. However I dont feel moving a hole bunch of true novice riders to expert is the anwers.In the current system if you when a F7 Championship you get moved to expert /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Under the current system Jake Chapman should be expert. Whats wrong with this picture.I never expected to poduim racing. So to win a third over all on my motard was a real suprise /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif I stoped racing my 600 because I felt uncomfortable running in the back with guys half my age with nothing to loose. So it was well know I was waiting to race the over 40 novice in 07. It was my opinon that the over 40 would be a much safer class to run mid pack because we all have to go to work on Monday. When I was told I would not be moved to expert I made decisions on what bikes to purchase for the over 40 novice class. So when the BOD [CHANGED!!!!!] there decition It upset me. If you cant see why that would upset me I dont guess we are even in the same ball park /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif I race because its in my blood not because I expect to win. At least as a novice I stand some what of a chance to see the lead riders. For exzample at Oak hill when the top riders crashed out and I got a win /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Nobody knows there was only 6 riders and I was loosing 2 to 4 seconds a lap. All they see is the first place plaque /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif and of course the story I tell about everybody crashing /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I dont like being called a problem memeber if I disagree with a change that was made after the fact. The last time I check the club was owned by the memebers, So I thought I had a voice but I guess That was wrong to. I have a hard time getting in line especially when I dont know where the line is going!!!!! TIIIMMMMY

Tim Chason
11-24-2006, 09:50 PM
Walter I have to disagree with you /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif The BOD anounced the new experts at the end of the season.Nancey even got a little frustrated after people keeped asking about the list. .6 or higher thats what we where told.[REPEATEDLY] Then almost a month later the list was changed. For some of us that didnt seat well. If I was told I would be expert from the start I would have felt alot different. What even made It more uncomfortable is the reasons. You cant honestly say lap times played a factor. Look at my lap times on my 600, and how about Rogers lap times on a XR100. Then it was so freinds can race together and have more fun /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Then it was the novice class is gonna be more like a PROVNOV. I AGREE 100% that the current system needs to be changed. However I dont feel moving a hole bunch of true novice riders to expert is the anwers.In the current system if you when a F7 Championship you get moved to expert /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Under the current system Jake Chapman should be expert. Whats wrong with this picture.I never expected to poduim racing. So to win a third over all on my motard was a real suprise /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif I stoped racing my 600 because I felt uncomfortable running in the back with guys half my age with nothing to loose. So it was well know I was waiting to race the over 40 novice in 07. It was my opinon that the over 40 would be a much safer class to run mid pack because we all have to go to work on Monday. When I was told I would not be moved to expert I made decisions on what bikes to purchase for the over 40 novice class. So when the BOD [CHANGED!!!!!] there decition It upset me. If you cant see why that would upset me I dont guess we are even in the same ball park /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif I race because its in my blood not because I expect to win. At least as a novice I stand some what of a chance to see the lead riders. For exzample at Oak hill when the top riders crashed out and I got a win /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Nobody knows there was only 6 riders and I was loosing 2 to 4 seconds a lap. All they see is the first place plaque /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif and of course the story I tell about everybody crashing /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I dont like being called a problem memeber if I disagree with a change that was made after the fact. The last time I check the club was owned by the memebers, So I thought I had a voice but I guess That was wrong to. I have a hard time getting in line especially when I dont know where the line is going!!!!! TIIIMMMMY

2SlowButTryin
11-24-2006, 11:49 PM
I part I don't understand is the logic behind "We're trying to keep friends competing together..." is this an Elitist club? Do I only make friends with the guys in FRONT of ME??? Cause in reality I have several friends that were left behind in Novice that I race with and hang out in the pits!!! So bump them too!!! But WAIT!! THEY have friends too that are almost as fast as they are and they like to jockey for position TOO!!! SO maybe THEY should be expert TOO!!! and THOSE guys.... YOU GET THE PICTURE!!!
At no point in time should FRIENDSHIPS be a part of a professional decision. Kinda like football.. We can be best friends off the field, but when you catch the ball I'm gonna do my best to make sure you can't take a breath after I hit you.
I'll help you BUILD your bike on Saterday night so I can STUFF you in the last turn to make the pass.
What? Does the BOD not think we can make NEW friends if they bust us up? The whole reason I bothered to track down Buck Beasley when I started racing was because he had been around for a while... and I new he was consistently at the front of the pack where I wanted to go. So there.. Buck made a new friend. That's exactly what happens to the novices left behind...
I'm am just shocked and appalled at the fact the only reason I have heard the BOD make for this decision was "we wanted to keep friends together so we didn't lose lonely racers". what? You think your going to lose less racers by moving them from the front of the novice pack to the VERY tail end of the expert pack? Sure, everyone always feels better when they outrun someone else... but there will ALWAYS be the poor guy who drags up last... so why move more people just to change the guy who drags up last? How does this benefit the club??? I have heard NO answer to this?!? maybe this would help make me feel better... I don't think it's gonna help Timmuah... but I think he's got a right to be pissed... I would be too! That's ALOT of MONEY!

2SlowButTryin
11-24-2006, 11:49 PM
I part I don't understand is the logic behind "We're trying to keep friends competing together..." is this an Elitist club? Do I only make friends with the guys in FRONT of ME??? Cause in reality I have several friends that were left behind in Novice that I race with and hang out in the pits!!! So bump them too!!! But WAIT!! THEY have friends too that are almost as fast as they are and they like to jockey for position TOO!!! SO maybe THEY should be expert TOO!!! and THOSE guys.... YOU GET THE PICTURE!!!
At no point in time should FRIENDSHIPS be a part of a professional decision. Kinda like football.. We can be best friends off the field, but when you catch the ball I'm gonna do my best to make sure you can't take a breath after I hit you.
I'll help you BUILD your bike on Saterday night so I can STUFF you in the last turn to make the pass.
What? Does the BOD not think we can make NEW friends if they bust us up? The whole reason I bothered to track down Buck Beasley when I started racing was because he had been around for a while... and I new he was consistently at the front of the pack where I wanted to go. So there.. Buck made a new friend. That's exactly what happens to the novices left behind...
I'm am just shocked and appalled at the fact the only reason I have heard the BOD make for this decision was "we wanted to keep friends together so we didn't lose lonely racers". what? You think your going to lose less racers by moving them from the front of the novice pack to the VERY tail end of the expert pack? Sure, everyone always feels better when they outrun someone else... but there will ALWAYS be the poor guy who drags up last... so why move more people just to change the guy who drags up last? How does this benefit the club??? I have heard NO answer to this?!? maybe this would help make me feel better... I don't think it's gonna help Timmuah... but I think he's got a right to be pissed... I would be too! That's ALOT of MONEY!

Roger Albert
11-25-2006, 09:18 AM
To be fair to the BOD, regardless of how I feel about my own position, I don't think keeping friends together was their only stated reason, or even their primary one. It seems they are trying to thin the novice heard and beef up the expert grids. I can't take any issue with that concept, and it IS the sort of thing on their mandate. Just trying to be objective here.

Roger Albert
11-25-2006, 09:18 AM
To be fair to the BOD, regardless of how I feel about my own position, I don't think keeping friends together was their only stated reason, or even their primary one. It seems they are trying to thin the novice heard and beef up the expert grids. I can't take any issue with that concept, and it IS the sort of thing on their mandate. Just trying to be objective here.

Tim Chason
11-25-2006, 10:41 AM
Roger the BOD has a very tough job. They cant make everybody happy. I think the Idea behind the changes is good However I feel it wasnt thought threw.This is obvious from some of the people that where moved up. Take myself out of the picture and I still feel its not good. Roger do you Honestly think your an expert rider? You cant draw a line on a piece of paper and say ok those guys are experts. TIIIMMMMY

Tim Chason
11-25-2006, 10:41 AM
Roger the BOD has a very tough job. They cant make everybody happy. I think the Idea behind the changes is good However I feel it wasnt thought threw.This is obvious from some of the people that where moved up. Take myself out of the picture and I still feel its not good. Roger do you Honestly think your an expert rider? You cant draw a line on a piece of paper and say ok those guys are experts. TIIIMMMMY

Linz Leard
11-25-2006, 10:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Tim Chason:
The BOD anounced the new experts at the end of the season. Nancey even got a little frustrated after people keeped asking about the list. .6 or higher thats what we where told.

>>>Remember that the rulebook does not specify a specific index number, Tim. When .6 was discussed by the BoD and then presented on the BBS (which, by the way isn't the official method of communication because many of the members do not participate on it and we cannot mandate that they do), it was looked at again after weighing in more factors. The index number became more arbitrary and other factors became more relevant (see another posting of mine for a listing of some of those factors). Change happens. There's been a lot of discussion about the index number inside and outside of the BoD; it's always been a tool, a measuring stick, but other factors have always been considered for expert promotion. One thing is a constant, though, and that's riders not agreeing with a promotion, which is why there is an appeals process. It's been this way since I first opened a rulebook a million years ago and it's still around today.

[REPEATEDLY] Then almost a month later the list was changed.

>>>Where in the rulebook does it state that the BoD cannot reevaluate a previous decision, Tim? In business it happens all the time. I agree - and have agreed - that the list of promoted novices should have stated that it was a provisional list. Look up the word provisional and see what it means.

For some of us that didnt seat well. If I was told I would be expert from the start

>>>From the start of what? This is the part that is really ambiguous to me. Who said you would NOT be an expert? Not seeing your name on a provisional list is NOT the same thing as being told you are not promoted.

I would have felt alot different. What even made It more uncomfortable is the reasons. You cant honestly say lap times played a factor.

>>>Yes I can. I can honestly tell you that your lap times were a factor. One of many factors.

Look at my lap times on my 600, and how about Rogers lap times on a XR100. Then it was so freinds can race together and have more fun /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

>>>This is a benefit, not a reason. The rationale here is that if you enjoy racing because of your friends around you on the track in a novice race, you should still be around these people in an expert race.

Then it was the novice class is gonna be more like a PROVNOV. I AGREE 100% that the current system needs to be changed.

>>>The system is just that - a system. In fact, it's a system of sub-systems. It is not simple; it is complex. It is not black or white; it is grey. It does not have clearly defined boundaries; it has fuzzy edges. Creating a system that establishes a clearly defined promotion marker (e.g. a person wins a c'ship so he/she is automatically promoted) is easier than incorporating the lower fringes of those to be promoted (e.g. how does one categorically place rider A on the bump list when his/her results are very similar to rider B and rider B is not bumped?). It becomes very difficult right about here.

However I dont feel moving a hole bunch of true novice riders to expert is the anwers.

>>>What is true novice, Tim? Is there a hard line drawn in the sand? I’ll bet that the definition you have of a novice is different than the definition many other members have. If you look up the definition of the word "novice", I think you'd find it is arbitrary, too. One definition of the word states that a novice is "a person who is new to the circumstances, work, etc., in which he or she is placed; beginner." Are you new to roadracing? If so, how is this determined? Is it time in the organization or specific number of races, results not withstanding? Is it some kind of general knowledge? Is it some kind of specific knowledge? Is it a specific lap time on a specific bike? Is it a comprehensive understanding of the safety standards the organization has outlined? Is it when a novice has finished ahead of an expert in a race? While you’re defining novice, Tim, I’d like you to define a true expert, too. And I’d like you to create a process whereby an expert can be classified as a novice again using, of course, very specific numbers and markers that make sense to all. Really. You do this and we’ll incorporate it into the rulebook.

In the current system if you when a F7 Championship you get moved to expert /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Under the current system Jake Chapman should be expert. Whats wrong with this picture.I never expected to poduim racing. So to win a third over all on my motard was a real suprise /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

>>>We’re you surprised at how competitive you were, or were you surprised how slow the rest of the pack was? Did you actually “win” third place overall, or can it be considered a non-accomplishment because you didn’t expect to do as well as you did by some de facto set of standards relative to the motard class only? And are you saying that you might be considered an expert in one class, but not in another because you don’t have experience on that particular bike and are not competitive? This is very interesting. With this in mind, do you feel that it is reasonable (let alone possible) to have riders within club roadracing broken out into categories, say, whereby one can theoretically win a 600cc championship as a novice yet make a case for remaining a novice because that person now wants to contest a 750cc class and has never ridden a 750 before? How about me? I haven’t won a 600cc race in about 15 years and haven’t been on the podium of a 600cc race since about ’99. I haven’t raced a new 600 in several years. Can I be considered a novice in a 600cc class because I can make a case for not having ridden the bike before? If not, why?

I stoped racing my 600 because I felt uncomfortable running in the back with guys half my age with nothing to loose. So it was well know I was waiting to race the over 40 novice in 07.

>>>Well known? To whom? I didn’t know you were planning on racing F40 novice. I never saw it published in a newsletter, I never received an email personally to me regarding the subject, and I didn’t see one of those big black and white “Public Notice” signs on your front lawn. Are you saying that the most, if not all of the CMRA knew your intentions to race F40 novice in 2007, even those that don’t pit next to you or read your postings on the BBS?

It was my opinon that the over 40 would be a much safer class to run mid pack because we all have to go to work on Monday. When I was told I would not be moved to expert I made decisions on what bikes to purchase for the over 40 novice class.

>>>Is racing F40 expert more dangerous in your opinion than racing “mid-pack” in F40 novice? If so, how? Ronnie Lunsford is one of the most conservative and safest racers I know. He’s also fast. He has to go to work on Monday (okay, Tuesday). Maybe what your real issue here is “I don’t have much of a chance to win F40 expert; F40 novice would be easier.”

So when the BOD [CHANGED!!!!!] there decition It upset me. If you cant see why that would upset me I dont guess we are even in the same ball park /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif I race because its in my blood not because I expect to win.

>>>Then being an expert shouldn’t bother you.

At least as a novice I stand some what of a chance to see the lead riders.

>>>I thought racing was in your blood…so what does seeing the lead riders have to do with anything?

For exzample at Oak hill when the top riders crashed out and I got a win /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Nobody knows there was only 6 riders and I was loosing 2 to 4 seconds a lap. All they see is the first place plaque /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif and of course the story I tell about everybody crashing /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I dont like being called a problem memeber if I disagree with a change that was made after the fact.

>>>After the fact…?

The last time I check the club was owned by the memebers,

>>>Check again, Tim. Neither the rulebook nor the by-laws state the club is owned by the members. The rulebook states “Today the spirit of its founders continues in the operation of the CMRA as a not-for-profit organization, run by and for the membership. The CMRA is managed by a Board of Directors, which is elected by popular vote of the CMRA members.” This means that a panel consisting of CMRA members is elected to govern the operations of the CMRA; it does not mean that 700 members sit around some big camp fire singing “Kum ba yah”, holding hands and talking racing. That’d be great, but, as a businessman, I don’t have to explain to you why this never works, do I?

So I thought I had a voice but I guess That was wrong to.

>>>C’mon, Tim! You have a voice, and you use it often. And you are being heard, too, but you are feeling pissed because every time you bring something up, it seems to go the opposite direction. If you are whining because you are not getting your way, then I am sorry that does not seem to working out for you. But if you are making suggestions as to how to improve things, take note that the BoD is hearing everything you say and you do have many valid concerns and suggestions that we considered and are still considering. Really.

I have a hard time getting in line especially when I dont know where the line is going!!!!!

>>>Brandon Boyd says “Isn't it strange that the man standing in front of me doesn't have a clue why he's waiting or what he's waiting for? Maybe it’s me but I'm sick of wasting energy, maybe if I look in my heart, I can find a back a door.”
TIIIMMMMY </div></div>

Linz Leard
11-25-2006, 10:59 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Tim Chason:
The BOD anounced the new experts at the end of the season. Nancey even got a little frustrated after people keeped asking about the list. .6 or higher thats what we where told.

>>>Remember that the rulebook does not specify a specific index number, Tim. When .6 was discussed by the BoD and then presented on the BBS (which, by the way isn't the official method of communication because many of the members do not participate on it and we cannot mandate that they do), it was looked at again after weighing in more factors. The index number became more arbitrary and other factors became more relevant (see another posting of mine for a listing of some of those factors). Change happens. There's been a lot of discussion about the index number inside and outside of the BoD; it's always been a tool, a measuring stick, but other factors have always been considered for expert promotion. One thing is a constant, though, and that's riders not agreeing with a promotion, which is why there is an appeals process. It's been this way since I first opened a rulebook a million years ago and it's still around today.

[REPEATEDLY] Then almost a month later the list was changed.

>>>Where in the rulebook does it state that the BoD cannot reevaluate a previous decision, Tim? In business it happens all the time. I agree - and have agreed - that the list of promoted novices should have stated that it was a provisional list. Look up the word provisional and see what it means.

For some of us that didnt seat well. If I was told I would be expert from the start

>>>From the start of what? This is the part that is really ambiguous to me. Who said you would NOT be an expert? Not seeing your name on a provisional list is NOT the same thing as being told you are not promoted.

I would have felt alot different. What even made It more uncomfortable is the reasons. You cant honestly say lap times played a factor.

>>>Yes I can. I can honestly tell you that your lap times were a factor. One of many factors.

Look at my lap times on my 600, and how about Rogers lap times on a XR100. Then it was so freinds can race together and have more fun /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

>>>This is a benefit, not a reason. The rationale here is that if you enjoy racing because of your friends around you on the track in a novice race, you should still be around these people in an expert race.

Then it was the novice class is gonna be more like a PROVNOV. I AGREE 100% that the current system needs to be changed.

>>>The system is just that - a system. In fact, it's a system of sub-systems. It is not simple; it is complex. It is not black or white; it is grey. It does not have clearly defined boundaries; it has fuzzy edges. Creating a system that establishes a clearly defined promotion marker (e.g. a person wins a c'ship so he/she is automatically promoted) is easier than incorporating the lower fringes of those to be promoted (e.g. how does one categorically place rider A on the bump list when his/her results are very similar to rider B and rider B is not bumped?). It becomes very difficult right about here.

However I dont feel moving a hole bunch of true novice riders to expert is the anwers.

>>>What is true novice, Tim? Is there a hard line drawn in the sand? I’ll bet that the definition you have of a novice is different than the definition many other members have. If you look up the definition of the word "novice", I think you'd find it is arbitrary, too. One definition of the word states that a novice is "a person who is new to the circumstances, work, etc., in which he or she is placed; beginner." Are you new to roadracing? If so, how is this determined? Is it time in the organization or specific number of races, results not withstanding? Is it some kind of general knowledge? Is it some kind of specific knowledge? Is it a specific lap time on a specific bike? Is it a comprehensive understanding of the safety standards the organization has outlined? Is it when a novice has finished ahead of an expert in a race? While you’re defining novice, Tim, I’d like you to define a true expert, too. And I’d like you to create a process whereby an expert can be classified as a novice again using, of course, very specific numbers and markers that make sense to all. Really. You do this and we’ll incorporate it into the rulebook.

In the current system if you when a F7 Championship you get moved to expert /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Under the current system Jake Chapman should be expert. Whats wrong with this picture.I never expected to poduim racing. So to win a third over all on my motard was a real suprise /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

>>>We’re you surprised at how competitive you were, or were you surprised how slow the rest of the pack was? Did you actually “win” third place overall, or can it be considered a non-accomplishment because you didn’t expect to do as well as you did by some de facto set of standards relative to the motard class only? And are you saying that you might be considered an expert in one class, but not in another because you don’t have experience on that particular bike and are not competitive? This is very interesting. With this in mind, do you feel that it is reasonable (let alone possible) to have riders within club roadracing broken out into categories, say, whereby one can theoretically win a 600cc championship as a novice yet make a case for remaining a novice because that person now wants to contest a 750cc class and has never ridden a 750 before? How about me? I haven’t won a 600cc race in about 15 years and haven’t been on the podium of a 600cc race since about ’99. I haven’t raced a new 600 in several years. Can I be considered a novice in a 600cc class because I can make a case for not having ridden the bike before? If not, why?

I stoped racing my 600 because I felt uncomfortable running in the back with guys half my age with nothing to loose. So it was well know I was waiting to race the over 40 novice in 07.

>>>Well known? To whom? I didn’t know you were planning on racing F40 novice. I never saw it published in a newsletter, I never received an email personally to me regarding the subject, and I didn’t see one of those big black and white “Public Notice” signs on your front lawn. Are you saying that the most, if not all of the CMRA knew your intentions to race F40 novice in 2007, even those that don’t pit next to you or read your postings on the BBS?

It was my opinon that the over 40 would be a much safer class to run mid pack because we all have to go to work on Monday. When I was told I would not be moved to expert I made decisions on what bikes to purchase for the over 40 novice class.

>>>Is racing F40 expert more dangerous in your opinion than racing “mid-pack” in F40 novice? If so, how? Ronnie Lunsford is one of the most conservative and safest racers I know. He’s also fast. He has to go to work on Monday (okay, Tuesday). Maybe what your real issue here is “I don’t have much of a chance to win F40 expert; F40 novice would be easier.”

So when the BOD [CHANGED!!!!!] there decition It upset me. If you cant see why that would upset me I dont guess we are even in the same ball park /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif I race because its in my blood not because I expect to win.

>>>Then being an expert shouldn’t bother you.

At least as a novice I stand some what of a chance to see the lead riders.

>>>I thought racing was in your blood…so what does seeing the lead riders have to do with anything?

For exzample at Oak hill when the top riders crashed out and I got a win /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Nobody knows there was only 6 riders and I was loosing 2 to 4 seconds a lap. All they see is the first place plaque /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif and of course the story I tell about everybody crashing /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I dont like being called a problem memeber if I disagree with a change that was made after the fact.

>>>After the fact…?

The last time I check the club was owned by the memebers,

>>>Check again, Tim. Neither the rulebook nor the by-laws state the club is owned by the members. The rulebook states “Today the spirit of its founders continues in the operation of the CMRA as a not-for-profit organization, run by and for the membership. The CMRA is managed by a Board of Directors, which is elected by popular vote of the CMRA members.” This means that a panel consisting of CMRA members is elected to govern the operations of the CMRA; it does not mean that 700 members sit around some big camp fire singing “Kum ba yah”, holding hands and talking racing. That’d be great, but, as a businessman, I don’t have to explain to you why this never works, do I?

So I thought I had a voice but I guess That was wrong to.

>>>C’mon, Tim! You have a voice, and you use it often. And you are being heard, too, but you are feeling pissed because every time you bring something up, it seems to go the opposite direction. If you are whining because you are not getting your way, then I am sorry that does not seem to working out for you. But if you are making suggestions as to how to improve things, take note that the BoD is hearing everything you say and you do have many valid concerns and suggestions that we considered and are still considering. Really.

I have a hard time getting in line especially when I dont know where the line is going!!!!!

>>>Brandon Boyd says “Isn't it strange that the man standing in front of me doesn't have a clue why he's waiting or what he's waiting for? Maybe it’s me but I'm sick of wasting energy, maybe if I look in my heart, I can find a back a door.”
TIIIMMMMY </div></div>

Christopher Corder
11-25-2006, 12:34 PM
Two things:
1. I dont know if you submitted a review letter or not but my guess is you will. My suggestion to you is to come up with valid (RIDING) reasons to stay a novice. Regardless of how justified your reasons are to you, I can definately tell you that the reasons you have cited WILL NOT sway the board. Its easy to look at Corey and others and say that they got to remain novice and then they dominated but these riders gave valid RIDING RELATED reasons for staying a novice. I doubt the BOD cares how much money you spent or how long your were planning to race in the gray hair class. Oh, and dont cite your laptimes. You sometimes had faster laps than me and I have three years of racing experience on you. I wish you the best of luck and I look foward to racing against you regardless of the color of your plates.

2. This club is NOT member owned in any way, shape, or form. I approach my relationship with the club as a business/client relationship. I pay for a service and the club provides it, that is all. I dont volunteer to help the club just like I dont volunteer to help Wal Mart restock its shelves. My wife loves the CMRA and wants to give her free time to the club. I think that is awesome but that is not the relationship I plan on having with the CMRA. My point is that other than races, I dont expect ANYTHING from this club. Do I have a voice? Yes. And I give it when I feel it is in my best interest. But, I am a customer who is provided a service, nothing more, nothing less.

Christopher Corder
11-25-2006, 12:34 PM
Two things:
1. I dont know if you submitted a review letter or not but my guess is you will. My suggestion to you is to come up with valid (RIDING) reasons to stay a novice. Regardless of how justified your reasons are to you, I can definately tell you that the reasons you have cited WILL NOT sway the board. Its easy to look at Corey and others and say that they got to remain novice and then they dominated but these riders gave valid RIDING RELATED reasons for staying a novice. I doubt the BOD cares how much money you spent or how long your were planning to race in the gray hair class. Oh, and dont cite your laptimes. You sometimes had faster laps than me and I have three years of racing experience on you. I wish you the best of luck and I look foward to racing against you regardless of the color of your plates.

2. This club is NOT member owned in any way, shape, or form. I approach my relationship with the club as a business/client relationship. I pay for a service and the club provides it, that is all. I dont volunteer to help the club just like I dont volunteer to help Wal Mart restock its shelves. My wife loves the CMRA and wants to give her free time to the club. I think that is awesome but that is not the relationship I plan on having with the CMRA. My point is that other than races, I dont expect ANYTHING from this club. Do I have a voice? Yes. And I give it when I feel it is in my best interest. But, I am a customer who is provided a service, nothing more, nothing less.

Tim Chason
11-25-2006, 05:45 PM
Linz how come every time some body disagrees with the BOD there called whinners? Linz I wasnt present when the BOD evaluated the new experts. Maybe you guys see something I dont. Im even willing to keep looking and I have but I still cant see how myself and other riders where moved to expert. The only why I can come close to seeing the reason is to fill up the grid. Lord knows I could be wrong. So at this point I think I better stop or I will be on the BLACKLIST for quit some time. I just wanna race and have a good time. I voted for the BOD and I truly hope in the future memebers who have a disagreement with the BOD will recieve the same respect they give the BOD. Remember the members voted for you and other BOD to be our voice not to talk down to us and call us WHINNERS. Thanks for your time Tim Chason

Tim Chason
11-25-2006, 05:45 PM
Linz how come every time some body disagrees with the BOD there called whinners? Linz I wasnt present when the BOD evaluated the new experts. Maybe you guys see something I dont. Im even willing to keep looking and I have but I still cant see how myself and other riders where moved to expert. The only why I can come close to seeing the reason is to fill up the grid. Lord knows I could be wrong. So at this point I think I better stop or I will be on the BLACKLIST for quit some time. I just wanna race and have a good time. I voted for the BOD and I truly hope in the future memebers who have a disagreement with the BOD will recieve the same respect they give the BOD. Remember the members voted for you and other BOD to be our voice not to talk down to us and call us WHINNERS. Thanks for your time Tim Chason

Tim Chason
11-25-2006, 09:47 PM
Linz The more I think about your post the more uneasy I get. If you go back to when all this started you would see how the BOD is in conflict with its own post. Straight out of the rule book. The BOD will set the riders index at the end of the season. :Originally posted by Nancey:,[Riders with a .600 and above are automatically moved up to Expert for 2007. Also, any Novice who won a 2006 Class Championship is automatically moved up to Expert] I couldnt find anywhere the rule book says after the Index has been posted and the new experts where anounced the index would change. If I would have been on the original list I would have felt different. WHY? because all year long we are told rules are rules. If the BOD dosent feel that changing the Index a month after it was posted is a big thing. Then what was the big deal with letting Kelsey race the last race as expert and not give up his novice championship /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif OH thats right rules are rules. At this point It no longer matters. Only negative will come from this and its going no where. Plus I dont like being talked down to and made an exzample of. I was told when I first joined the CMRA dont Question the BOD because you will be hung out to dry. As long as I gave my money and my time I was a great guy. Now I dont agree with something and all of a sudden Im the devil a bad member trying to start problems. Now I allredy know what your thinking we never said that. You didnt have to just read your post. From my side its says how dare you Question us, This is your first year you dont know what your talking about, So shut up and do what we say. No problem I take back my request I will race as a expert in 2007. One more thing Linz It was well know I was waiting to race F40! By all my racing buddies/friends/pit pals. According to the BOD thats what racing is all about right?

Tim Chason
11-25-2006, 09:47 PM
Linz The more I think about your post the more uneasy I get. If you go back to when all this started you would see how the BOD is in conflict with its own post. Straight out of the rule book. The BOD will set the riders index at the end of the season. :Originally posted by Nancey:,[Riders with a .600 and above are automatically moved up to Expert for 2007. Also, any Novice who won a 2006 Class Championship is automatically moved up to Expert] I couldnt find anywhere the rule book says after the Index has been posted and the new experts where anounced the index would change. If I would have been on the original list I would have felt different. WHY? because all year long we are told rules are rules. If the BOD dosent feel that changing the Index a month after it was posted is a big thing. Then what was the big deal with letting Kelsey race the last race as expert and not give up his novice championship /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif OH thats right rules are rules. At this point It no longer matters. Only negative will come from this and its going no where. Plus I dont like being talked down to and made an exzample of. I was told when I first joined the CMRA dont Question the BOD because you will be hung out to dry. As long as I gave my money and my time I was a great guy. Now I dont agree with something and all of a sudden Im the devil a bad member trying to start problems. Now I allredy know what your thinking we never said that. You didnt have to just read your post. From my side its says how dare you Question us, This is your first year you dont know what your talking about, So shut up and do what we say. No problem I take back my request I will race as a expert in 2007. One more thing Linz It was well know I was waiting to race F40! By all my racing buddies/friends/pit pals. According to the BOD thats what racing is all about right?

Linz Leard
11-25-2006, 10:55 PM
I will not line item your response, Tim. I stand by my words. Please read them again and remember that change occurs because there is a gap between what is and what should be.

And I am sorry that someone put the idea in your head when you first joined the CMRA that questioning the BoD would be poison. I do not think that to be a wholly fair statement for someone to make. I encourage you or anyone else to question the BoD, the rulebook, your local government and your national government because it keeps these groups on thier respective toes.

Linz Leard
11-25-2006, 10:55 PM
I will not line item your response, Tim. I stand by my words. Please read them again and remember that change occurs because there is a gap between what is and what should be.

And I am sorry that someone put the idea in your head when you first joined the CMRA that questioning the BoD would be poison. I do not think that to be a wholly fair statement for someone to make. I encourage you or anyone else to question the BoD, the rulebook, your local government and your national government because it keeps these groups on thier respective toes.

Tim Chason
11-26-2006, 12:20 PM
Linz for me this matter is closed. The difference from myself and other memebers, I dont try to play both sides of the fence. The down side is sometimes this Isolates me. In my eyes the BOD has made a bad decition. If the BOD cant step back and try to look at it from my view and other members. THAT IS THE HOLE PROBLEM!!!! If the BOD cant look at the club from every possible view. From JR motard to a possible womens only race. There will allways be conflict in the club and rummors of a close minded BOD. Linz my words have not been directed at you as my friend rather the position you hold.Thank you and other BOD memebers for there time. Tim Chason

Tim Chason
11-26-2006, 12:20 PM
Linz for me this matter is closed. The difference from myself and other memebers, I dont try to play both sides of the fence. The down side is sometimes this Isolates me. In my eyes the BOD has made a bad decition. If the BOD cant step back and try to look at it from my view and other members. THAT IS THE HOLE PROBLEM!!!! If the BOD cant look at the club from every possible view. From JR motard to a possible womens only race. There will allways be conflict in the club and rummors of a close minded BOD. Linz my words have not been directed at you as my friend rather the position you hold.Thank you and other BOD memebers for there time. Tim Chason

Rich Desmond
11-26-2006, 09:04 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Tim Chason:
Linz for me this matter is closed. The difference from myself and other memebers, I dont try to play both sides of the fence. The down side is sometimes this Isolates me. In my eyes the BOD has made a bad decition. If the BOD cant step back and try to look at it from my view and other members. THAT IS THE HOLE PROBLEM!!!! If the BOD cant look at the club from every possible view. From JR motard to a possible womens only race. There will allways be conflict in the club and rummors of a close minded BOD. Linz my words have not been directed at you as my friend rather the position you hold.Thank you and other BOD memebers for there time. Tim Chason </div></div>Tim, just because the board doesn't agree with you doesn't make them closed-minded.
There are a lot of us who think the board did the right thing in going back and moving up more people. Personally, I think more should have been.

Rich Desmond
11-26-2006, 09:04 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Tim Chason:
Linz for me this matter is closed. The difference from myself and other memebers, I dont try to play both sides of the fence. The down side is sometimes this Isolates me. In my eyes the BOD has made a bad decition. If the BOD cant step back and try to look at it from my view and other members. THAT IS THE HOLE PROBLEM!!!! If the BOD cant look at the club from every possible view. From JR motard to a possible womens only race. There will allways be conflict in the club and rummors of a close minded BOD. Linz my words have not been directed at you as my friend rather the position you hold.Thank you and other BOD memebers for there time. Tim Chason </div></div>Tim, just because the board doesn't agree with you doesn't make them closed-minded.
There are a lot of us who think the board did the right thing in going back and moving up more people. Personally, I think more should have been.

Tim Chason
11-27-2006, 01:12 PM
Rich 60% of my disagreement was not with my self rather riders like Roger that where moved to expert because he placed well on a XR100.If the BOD cant step back and see this is a problem. Then yes there being very close minded. In the past year I have been lucky enough to make some really cool friends in our club. Some of the BOD is in this group. Most people look at a motorcycle and say cool bike. I look at a motorcycle and see art, I see the room for Improvment,I look for flaws most of all I look to see what can be done to make it better. Some people that run our club say if it aint broke dont fixit. I have a problem with this. Rich if you cant understand why. Well you probably just see a cool bike. TIIIMMMMY /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif This is my last post here, I have to start trainning to be an EXPERT /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

Tim Chason
11-27-2006, 01:12 PM
Rich 60% of my disagreement was not with my self rather riders like Roger that where moved to expert because he placed well on a XR100.If the BOD cant step back and see this is a problem. Then yes there being very close minded. In the past year I have been lucky enough to make some really cool friends in our club. Some of the BOD is in this group. Most people look at a motorcycle and say cool bike. I look at a motorcycle and see art, I see the room for Improvment,I look for flaws most of all I look to see what can be done to make it better. Some people that run our club say if it aint broke dont fixit. I have a problem with this. Rich if you cant understand why. Well you probably just see a cool bike. TIIIMMMMY /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif This is my last post here, I have to start trainning to be an EXPERT /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

Jason Keene
11-27-2006, 01:35 PM
Please let it be so... Your post count on this thread alone is 19... :p

Just so you know punkin', lot's of members in the club say leave it alone no matter how much they CRY... /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif


For the record... Roger placed well on an SV not just on a mini bike... He placed 2nd at MSR on his SV and top 6 finishes for the year in two classes, with out running every event.

Someone should lock this thread...

The facts have been stated and appeals should be done to the BOD in writing.

I'm going to have to be more selective with the topics I open in the future...

Jason Keene
11-27-2006, 01:35 PM
Please let it be so... Your post count on this thread alone is 19... :p

Just so you know punkin', lot's of members in the club say leave it alone no matter how much they CRY... /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif


For the record... Roger placed well on an SV not just on a mini bike... He placed 2nd at MSR on his SV and top 6 finishes for the year in two classes, with out running every event.

Someone should lock this thread...

The facts have been stated and appeals should be done to the BOD in writing.

I'm going to have to be more selective with the topics I open in the future...

Roger Albert
11-27-2006, 02:01 PM
True Jason, but I think only 4 guys finished that race, and one of the two I was ahead of was a Motard. So, that placing didn't mean much in real terms, or, given the low rider count, would it have contributed to the index either. Heck, if three more guys had been absent, I could swept the podium all by myself /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif OK, NOW lock it. I don't want to here Tim or myself anymore either /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Roger Albert
11-27-2006, 02:01 PM
True Jason, but I think only 4 guys finished that race, and one of the two I was ahead of was a Motard. So, that placing didn't mean much in real terms, or, given the low rider count, would it have contributed to the index either. Heck, if three more guys had been absent, I could swept the podium all by myself /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif OK, NOW lock it. I don't want to here Tim or myself anymore either /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

el_che
12-01-2006, 05:07 PM
Does this bump affect Expert purses?

el_che
12-01-2006, 05:07 PM
Does this bump affect Expert purses?

Yuliya Marcer
12-24-2006, 02:52 AM
I know what y'all reminded me of..

http://www.knitemare.org/grabber/jedisquirrel.jpg

Yuliya Marcer
12-24-2006, 02:52 AM
I know what y'all reminded me of..

http://www.knitemare.org/grabber/jedisquirrel.jpg

binskies
12-24-2006, 10:32 AM
Now THAT's funny!

binskies
12-24-2006, 10:32 AM
Now THAT's funny!

Roger Albert
12-24-2006, 10:38 AM
That's more respectable looking than I was picturing.

Roger Albert
12-24-2006, 10:38 AM
That's more respectable looking than I was picturing.

Chuck Ergle
12-25-2006, 01:12 PM
Thanks a LOT, Yuliya. Now I have to wipe off all the beer I just spewed all over my monitor!! You've just one-upped Mr. Hertell on the funny photo "this thread is beyond Twilight Zone" front.

Chuck Ergle
12-25-2006, 01:12 PM
Thanks a LOT, Yuliya. Now I have to wipe off all the beer I just spewed all over my monitor!! You've just one-upped Mr. Hertell on the funny photo "this thread is beyond Twilight Zone" front.

David Maxwell
12-25-2006, 07:38 PM
And if Mr. Tim would read his own post...riders with a .600 or class championship are AUTOMATICALLY bumped to expert. The rest is up for BOD approval/recommendations.

As for me...I requested (& got) my Expert plates back. Thank you BOD.

David Maxwell
12-25-2006, 07:38 PM
And if Mr. Tim would read his own post...riders with a .600 or class championship are AUTOMATICALLY bumped to expert. The rest is up for BOD approval/recommendations.

As for me...I requested (& got) my Expert plates back. Thank you BOD.