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View Full Version : Oak Hill - Race #1 Starting Line Crash



Wes Wiese
10-01-2007, 02:53 PM
For those of you who don't know me my name is Wes Wiese and I was the starter this past weekend. I was the starter for the CMRA a couple of years ago and filled in for Jeff Phillips this past weekend while Allen was at the RBRC in Brimingham.

This post is actually to find out if any happened to be filming the restart of race #1 last Sunday. I know most of the members were probably preparing for their races later in the day and missed the action on the starting line at the restart. After the Red Flag the class was split into 2 waves and when I started the second wave a 125 had taken off quite slower than the SV behind him. Basically the SV ended up running over the back of the 125 and taking out the "starter stand" I was standing on as i jumped into the air over the sliding motorcycle landing basically on my hands and knees. There is not a lot of danger in the starters job usually and the only thing that could really happen FINALLY did after wondering if it could ever happen.

Anyways, just curious if there happens to be a video after shaking all the way up until the lunch break and having a dream about it last night I thought I would ask.

Thanks for the great racing last weekend and good luck to everyone in the future.

Wes

Wes Wiese
10-01-2007, 02:53 PM
For those of you who don't know me my name is Wes Wiese and I was the starter this past weekend. I was the starter for the CMRA a couple of years ago and filled in for Jeff Phillips this past weekend while Allen was at the RBRC in Brimingham.

This post is actually to find out if any happened to be filming the restart of race #1 last Sunday. I know most of the members were probably preparing for their races later in the day and missed the action on the starting line at the restart. After the Red Flag the class was split into 2 waves and when I started the second wave a 125 had taken off quite slower than the SV behind him. Basically the SV ended up running over the back of the 125 and taking out the "starter stand" I was standing on as i jumped into the air over the sliding motorcycle landing basically on my hands and knees. There is not a lot of danger in the starters job usually and the only thing that could really happen FINALLY did after wondering if it could ever happen.

Anyways, just curious if there happens to be a video after shaking all the way up until the lunch break and having a dream about it last night I thought I would ask.

Thanks for the great racing last weekend and good luck to everyone in the future.

Wes

Keith Hertell
10-01-2007, 03:06 PM
Glad you are OK.

Keith Hertell
10-01-2007, 03:06 PM
Glad you are OK.

Dewayne Davis
10-01-2007, 04:08 PM
Wes, I was in the stands and someone did have it on video but I do not know if the guy was with any CMRA Riders. Good luck on finding a copy .... Glad you are OK...............

Dewayne Davis
10-01-2007, 04:08 PM
Wes, I was in the stands and someone did have it on video but I do not know if the guy was with any CMRA Riders. Good luck on finding a copy .... Glad you are OK...............

Jim Cambora
10-01-2007, 04:14 PM
Awesome flag waving skills! Hope you do the job more often.

Jim Cambora
10-01-2007, 04:14 PM
Awesome flag waving skills! Hope you do the job more often.

SAM ROMEO
10-01-2007, 04:44 PM
Wes
I had no idea you had that kind of acrobatic skills. For those of you who missed the show, Wes displayed a rare talent for self preservation.
I looked up just in time to see him jump straight up into the air. When he came down, the stand he was on was gone along with the bike that came sliding thru.
Wes - Any chance of an instant replay of that next time you flag a race at the hill?

SAM ROMEO
10-01-2007, 04:44 PM
Wes
I had no idea you had that kind of acrobatic skills. For those of you who missed the show, Wes displayed a rare talent for self preservation.
I looked up just in time to see him jump straight up into the air. When he came down, the stand he was on was gone along with the bike that came sliding thru.
Wes - Any chance of an instant replay of that next time you flag a race at the hill?

Dewayne Davis
10-01-2007, 04:46 PM
Maybe that is why I jumped the start.............

Dewayne Davis
10-01-2007, 04:46 PM
Maybe that is why I jumped the start.............

John Houck
10-01-2007, 06:08 PM
Sorry Wes. I wasn't aiming for you. I'm glad you're OK.

I started in the 11L position,which is at the far left of the track. There was a bike at 10L which is a 2 bike row so the 10L bike is to my right as I'm looking ahead. I could see only what was in front of me from the 10L bike to the front of the grid. I had absolutely no idea that there was a stalled bike from the first wave sitting there dead stopped. I could not see through the 10L bike to the middle of the track ahead which was approximately where the stalled bike was at a dead stop. The rider was bent over his bike looking at the engine. When the green flag dropped, I was making a fairly aggressive start and was just starting to go right of the 10L bike i.e. toward the middle of the track when I found the stalled bike directly in front of me. I hit the brakes and slammed into the pavement avoiding the collision with the stalled bike. I'm thankful that I didn't hit him.

One simple suggestion comes from this experience. No green flag for subsequent waves after the first if there's a stalled bike until that bike is rolled off the track, OR, a steady yellow flag with the green letting all of us in the wave know that there is a stalled bike or some other reason to be cautious during the launch. Riders starting in the back of the wave may not know what the riders up front can see. If there is a drag racer starting from the back, then a yellow with the green may add some caution and additional safety to the starts with a stalled bike ahead. I know that I wouldn't have been making as aggressive of a start had it been a green with a yellow flag.

Fractured scapula, minor concussion, an ugly SV and total frustration having missed the entire day of racing.

CATHY WHITE...CHRIS ACCARDO...BUD JOHNSON AND SONS...WALTER AND THE CMRA STAFF; a private thank you isn't sufficient as an expression of my thanks and appreciation, so here's a public one for all to see. This is a special place full of fantastic individuals. If anybody doubts that as fluff and BS, just look around and notice how many people come to the victims aid after a crash. Watch what happens;it's very cool long after that rider is off the track. Cathy and Chris...dinner and drinks on me for all that you two did for me( OK OK I know, reservations made at The Mansion at Turtle Creek). The CMRA is a great place to be!!

BTW, I would really like to see pics or the video. I'd like to learn as much as possible from this so please let me know if anyone comes across them. My hope is that I'm accurate assessing what happened. 817 637 5646 John

John Houck
10-01-2007, 06:08 PM
Sorry Wes. I wasn't aiming for you. I'm glad you're OK.

I started in the 11L position,which is at the far left of the track. There was a bike at 10L which is a 2 bike row so the 10L bike is to my right as I'm looking ahead. I could see only what was in front of me from the 10L bike to the front of the grid. I had absolutely no idea that there was a stalled bike from the first wave sitting there dead stopped. I could not see through the 10L bike to the middle of the track ahead which was approximately where the stalled bike was at a dead stop. The rider was bent over his bike looking at the engine. When the green flag dropped, I was making a fairly aggressive start and was just starting to go right of the 10L bike i.e. toward the middle of the track when I found the stalled bike directly in front of me. I hit the brakes and slammed into the pavement avoiding the collision with the stalled bike. I'm thankful that I didn't hit him.

One simple suggestion comes from this experience. No green flag for subsequent waves after the first if there's a stalled bike until that bike is rolled off the track, OR, a steady yellow flag with the green letting all of us in the wave know that there is a stalled bike or some other reason to be cautious during the launch. Riders starting in the back of the wave may not know what the riders up front can see. If there is a drag racer starting from the back, then a yellow with the green may add some caution and additional safety to the starts with a stalled bike ahead. I know that I wouldn't have been making as aggressive of a start had it been a green with a yellow flag.

Fractured scapula, minor concussion, an ugly SV and total frustration having missed the entire day of racing.

CATHY WHITE...CHRIS ACCARDO...BUD JOHNSON AND SONS...WALTER AND THE CMRA STAFF; a private thank you isn't sufficient as an expression of my thanks and appreciation, so here's a public one for all to see. This is a special place full of fantastic individuals. If anybody doubts that as fluff and BS, just look around and notice how many people come to the victims aid after a crash. Watch what happens;it's very cool long after that rider is off the track. Cathy and Chris...dinner and drinks on me for all that you two did for me( OK OK I know, reservations made at The Mansion at Turtle Creek). The CMRA is a great place to be!!

BTW, I would really like to see pics or the video. I'd like to learn as much as possible from this so please let me know if anyone comes across them. My hope is that I'm accurate assessing what happened. 817 637 5646 John

Wes Wiese
10-02-2007, 07:58 AM
John sorry to hear you are hurt and I know it was not your fault, but the bike you ran into was in your wave. I recall that just as the riders were gridding a decision was made to place the wave start at row 4 so there was nothing I could do about the bike stalling in your wave. I do believe any of the scorers or grid marshalls can verify this.

I would never have started the second wave with a stalled motorcycle sitting there.

I am glad everyone is OK and thanks for the compliments through out the weekend on my flagging style as well as the "acrobatic skills".

Wes Wiese
10-02-2007, 07:58 AM
John sorry to hear you are hurt and I know it was not your fault, but the bike you ran into was in your wave. I recall that just as the riders were gridding a decision was made to place the wave start at row 4 so there was nothing I could do about the bike stalling in your wave. I do believe any of the scorers or grid marshalls can verify this.

I would never have started the second wave with a stalled motorcycle sitting there.

I am glad everyone is OK and thanks for the compliments through out the weekend on my flagging style as well as the "acrobatic skills".

John Houck
10-02-2007, 08:43 AM
Got it Wes. I've been under the mistaken impression that the stalled bike must have stalled in wave one due to his position on the grid where I just missed him. I'm getting a better understanding of the mishap as the information rolls in. Were you able to find any pics or a video of the start? It turns out to be a series of unfortunate circumstances. No hard feelings here. The rider of the stalled bike approached me and apologized for not making himself visible by sitting up and waving his hand instead of leaning over the bike wondering why it stalled. That may have not helped me, given the blocking angle of the bike in front of me, but I still believe that requirement of a rider to be very important. The grid launch: a hazardous place to be for all of us. A new job requirement for the flagman: "acrobatic skills required"!

John Houck
10-02-2007, 08:43 AM
Got it Wes. I've been under the mistaken impression that the stalled bike must have stalled in wave one due to his position on the grid where I just missed him. I'm getting a better understanding of the mishap as the information rolls in. Were you able to find any pics or a video of the start? It turns out to be a series of unfortunate circumstances. No hard feelings here. The rider of the stalled bike approached me and apologized for not making himself visible by sitting up and waving his hand instead of leaning over the bike wondering why it stalled. That may have not helped me, given the blocking angle of the bike in front of me, but I still believe that requirement of a rider to be very important. The grid launch: a hazardous place to be for all of us. A new job requirement for the flagman: "acrobatic skills required"!

Wes Wiese
10-02-2007, 09:20 AM
No problem John just wanted to make sure everything was clear.

I hope Jeff Phillips gets to read this before TWS. HA HA

Wes Wiese
10-02-2007, 09:20 AM
No problem John just wanted to make sure everything was clear.

I hope Jeff Phillips gets to read this before TWS. HA HA

toddf007
10-02-2007, 06:09 PM
You did a great job this weekend Wes. It was nice hangin' with you too.

toddf007
10-02-2007, 06:09 PM
You did a great job this weekend Wes. It was nice hangin' with you too.

mklepper
10-02-2007, 08:43 PM
I was on the 125 that stalled. The bike bogged and I pulled in the clutch to get it back going. Unfortunately the next thing I know someone brushed by on the left followed by Mr. Houck's carnage. I am sincerely sorry that a major crash resulted from my bike "stalling". Walter chewed me because I didn't raise my hand. My bike did NOT die. My only thought was to get moving FORWARD. I am not sure what anyone else would have or could have done differently. I am open to learning. John once again I feel terrible that you got hurt and tore up your bike.

mklepper
10-02-2007, 08:43 PM
I was on the 125 that stalled. The bike bogged and I pulled in the clutch to get it back going. Unfortunately the next thing I know someone brushed by on the left followed by Mr. Houck's carnage. I am sincerely sorry that a major crash resulted from my bike "stalling". Walter chewed me because I didn't raise my hand. My bike did NOT die. My only thought was to get moving FORWARD. I am not sure what anyone else would have or could have done differently. I am open to learning. John once again I feel terrible that you got hurt and tore up your bike.

John Houck
10-02-2007, 10:39 PM
Thanks Mark. Your apology is appreciated. Since the bike didn't die, the engine was running so you were in the "make it go" mode. I understand. When I came out from behind 10L and saw you right there, I went from hard on the gas to "ah ****" and locked the brakes and went down. There wasn't any time to manuever. I'm glad I didn't hit you.

I think MOFOJO was the rider who scraped you on the left. His front brake lever is what you felt and he almost went down as well.

A pass to the right of 10L from the 11L position after the green flag is thrown isn't a good place to be if the rider(s) in the center position(s) stall or make a very slow start. It's a drive into a blind spot coming from the outside of 10L, from the 11L position, to drive up the middle because you can't see through the bike ahead until your coming around it from behind. A slow starter or stalled bike up the middle is going to make trouble. I never saw you Mark until I was coming out from behind 10L to power up the middle. I couldn't see through the bike at 10L as we left the grid on green.

I'm hoping to make TWS as a spectator. If so, I'll come by and see you. No hard feelings. It's just racing.

John Houck
10-02-2007, 10:39 PM
Thanks Mark. Your apology is appreciated. Since the bike didn't die, the engine was running so you were in the "make it go" mode. I understand. When I came out from behind 10L and saw you right there, I went from hard on the gas to "ah ****" and locked the brakes and went down. There wasn't any time to manuever. I'm glad I didn't hit you.

I think MOFOJO was the rider who scraped you on the left. His front brake lever is what you felt and he almost went down as well.

A pass to the right of 10L from the 11L position after the green flag is thrown isn't a good place to be if the rider(s) in the center position(s) stall or make a very slow start. It's a drive into a blind spot coming from the outside of 10L, from the 11L position, to drive up the middle because you can't see through the bike ahead until your coming around it from behind. A slow starter or stalled bike up the middle is going to make trouble. I never saw you Mark until I was coming out from behind 10L to power up the middle. I couldn't see through the bike at 10L as we left the grid on green.

I'm hoping to make TWS as a spectator. If so, I'll come by and see you. No hard feelings. It's just racing.