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View Full Version : CCS boss speaks of CMRA leaving CCS



06-30-2003, 11:11 AM
Roadracing World (http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/index.html)

Joseph Browning
06-30-2003, 11:26 AM
pretty good response. Don't necessarily know what RRW or CCS is trying to accomplish but I do know that I trust the BOD to make the right decisions for us- a vote, IMHO, is redundant.

racer550
06-30-2003, 12:37 PM
I agree. I just sent an email to RRW in response to Mr. Elliot's comments, and while I don't know if they'll publish it, I highly recommend we all respond to his insinuations.
I have no axe to grind with either CCS or Mr. Elliot, I feel we've had a good relationship with both, but now is the time to move on. I do take exception to his comments regarding our BOD and his company's contributions to our club.
I for one stand 100% behind Brooks and the BOD. I have known all of them for years, and trust their judgement. In my email to RRW, I pointed out that this issue has been discussed for several months by the members, and I believe the topic was started by members, not the BOD.
I also question whether we got our money's worth from CCS. I had great hopes that CCS along with Clear Channel, could take us to the next level. Alas, this has not happened. I do not think we paid $20K + for a mailing service (I still have not got my '03 rulebook), or a discount on insurance.
We have been a strong club for decades, we have been affiliated with other sanctioning bodies, and we have been independent, and we have been successful in all areas. Our strength lies not in who we have print up our rulebooks, but in our commitment to continuing our long tradition of excellence.
Rock on CMRA!

waytooslow
06-30-2003, 01:36 PM
thought this was weird: "Elliott said that he learned of CMRA’s intention to end its affiliation with CCS by reading it on Roadracingworld.com."

But what the heck, I am behind the BOD-100%... keep up the good work guys, I am sure we can get the printing and shirts done for much less than what we were paying out to CCS...anyhow.

Scott

Brooks Gremmels
06-30-2003, 02:31 PM
For the record, I and Norm and I, have met several times with CCS/CCE officials over the past two years in an attempt to pursuade the sanctioning body to address issues such as support for our endurance series, the scheduling of a national event in conjunction with one of ours, help in obtaining a t/s system, adjusting our sanctioning fees and so on. The short answer is that we were unable to gain support for these measures.
I drove to the CCS office in Ft. Worth last Thursday prior to making any sort of announcement about the decision to return to Independent status. Kevin Elliott was out of town and I met with Mike Kidd, a Vice President in the CCS office. I explained the situation fully to Mike. I also notified Mr. Roy Janson, Vice President Operations, CCE of the decision. I am surprised to learn that after these attemps to convey the message that Kevin had to learn of the decision by reading the Internet blurb.
The decision was made in an honest attempt to what is best for the CMRA membership. Not as a negative reflection on the CCS organization. They have a business to run and do so in the manner they see fit. Your BOD looks at the same situation but sees a different picture. I sincerely hope that we will be left to manage our own affairs with out being maligned by third parties. Better yet, if we are all looking at the same goal, making roadracing better for amateurs in the US, surely we can at some point sit down and look at opportunities for reaching this goal through mutual cooperation.
Let's race.
Brooks
PS, The press release below was furnished to RRWorld and Cycle News, this morning.

In a meeting held on June 7, 2003, the CMRA's Board of Directors voted
unanimously to return to Independent status after four years as a CCS
affiliate. This decision has been explored extensively over the past two
years in columns printed in the monthly newsletter, The Inside Line and on
the club's message board. The decision was reached after a number of
meetings with CCS failed to resolve issues that the CMRA had raised.
There are certainly few people involved in the sport of Amateur roadracing
who are committed to the advancement of the sport as CCS's Kevin Elliott.
Hopefully we will find an opportunity for our two organizations to
participate on the race track at some point in the future.
The return to Independent status comes after a series of accomplishments by
the CMRA over a two year period. A new Club Secretary, Race Director and a
new Editor for the newsletter have been hired, the conversion to GAP
accounting reports accomplished, the establishment of the CMRA Hall of Fame
(Collin Edwards and Kevin Schwantz were the first inductees), purchase of
air fence, repaving of Oak Hill Raceway, the purchase of a new AMB
timing/scoring system and a cash contingency program that has grown by more
than $50,000 are evidence that the club is strong and getting stronger. Race
entries are at an all-time high and the CMRA's development of a Motard
series that reaches youngsters of ages 8 to 12 provides entry-level
opportunities to get the next generations on the track.
The goal of the return to Independent status is to provide an even greater
value to CMRA members and to the roadracing community, in general.
Preliminary conversations with others in the club roadracing business
provide encouragement that there will greater flexibility in regards to
out-of-region and end-of-the-season competition. It is the CMRA's desire to
see these kinds of reciprocal opportunities granted to amateur roadracers
regardless of affiliation. This requires a whole different way of thinking
but change can be good and in this case, what is good for the rider is good
for the sport. Further details on the rulebook for 2004 and the programs to
be offered will be announced in the near future.
Brooks Gremmels
President, CMRA
#26

Andy Galindo
06-30-2003, 02:59 PM
From where I sit it appears that CCS wasn't necessarily doing anything wrong; there just hasn't seemed to be any particular advantage to being affiliated with them. I'm just a racer though, and obviously don't have all the details. I especially like to stay out of any politics. But I think it's a great idea and a good move. Just the changes since last year are impressive, and to think that this is a starting point and just the beginning is an exciting thought. My only hope is that we don't lose the contingencies and payouts we have in place-- and hopefully even improve upon them. Like I say I'm pretty impressed with things so far and am behind ya all the way. Way to go Brooks, BOD, and Staff!

marcus mcbain
06-30-2003, 03:27 PM
I believe the only "issue" with the way the CCS "split" is the way the membership participated in the decision. Yes, it is true that the BOD is the representative body for entire organization. I would have to say that from where I sit it was a good decision, but I don't know all the details to be honest as well as the fact that the BOD is acting upon their duties as they were elected to do.

In regards to a "democratic" process, I am somewhat surprised that with the screening process that occurs on the message board (BBS membership), that "polls" cannot be instituted for the benefit of input/confirmation on major decisions such as this. To me a BOD sponsored poll that allowed one vote per licensed rider would be very beneficial as a tool.

The last "split" (WERA) was very well kept "under the radar" before the decision was announced and it created disenchantment for a considerable number of the members. I would have to say that it would be VERY difficult not to see this (the CCS split) coming with the comments in the newsletters that have recently become a regular member service (again).

Lastly, as someone who has worked for both non-profit and for-profit businesses, it would appear to me that shopping the possible scenarios (i.e CCS-affiliation, Independent, WERA, or something else) and reporting those financial ramifications (even if at a high level) to the membership would not only solidify the BOD position, but also provide a more inclusive decision process in this and other matters.

I say the previous statements knowing that the CMRA paddock has become a “more relaxed” environment over the past few years, and the fact that the club appears to have a healthy future.

Marcus McBain

SMILEYMAN
06-30-2003, 03:45 PM
Way to go board of directors! Who is CCS to tell our club how to decide matters anyway? If we did not feel good about our own leadership then we could not have grown so in the last 2 years.

Would be nice to give and receive input thru our M Board with polls, however, not everyone who races with the CMRA gets on the board to vote and some may not have access. I think it could only be a tool for spreading the word and discovering all the veiw points and angles on a particular issue.

BTW, nice press release! Smiley 506

LWSB464
06-30-2003, 04:57 PM
I have been a member of the CMRA for 6 years and
I believe we are the best roadracing organization
in the U.S.A. We will continue to improve and thrive with great leaders like Brooks Gremmels
who has the determination and passion to make us
the benchmark of club level motorcycle roadracing.

marcus mcbain
06-30-2003, 05:59 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by CHRIS SMILEY:
Way to go board of directors! Who is CCS to tell our club how to decide matters anyway? If we did not feel good about our own leadership then we could not have grown so in the last 2 years.

Would be nice to give and receive input thru our M Board with polls, however, not everyone who races with the CMRA gets on the board to vote and some may not have access. I think it could only be a tool for spreading the word and discovering all the veiw points and angles on a particular issue.

BTW, nice press release! Smiley 506</div></div>SOP for many regional clubs is Pizza-N-Beer member meeting. 75-100 people show up, the Financial reports are given, votes taken, and all the dirty laundry is aired. Everyone has a good time. This statement includes membership observations at MRA, OMMRA, and WMMRA.

With that said, I think we have the opportunity to have quarterly on-line referendums on subjects such as endurance length, safety, affiliation, etc. that are advertised through the newly circulated newsletter. Because the BOD had insight to issues that require non-disclosure, that majority vote may not carry, BUT wouldn't it be nice to know that in a situation such as this that 90% of the folks supported the decision? I think it is taking the same step that commercial business did several years ago...utilizing technology to improve communication. I also believe it lowers the burden on the BOD and provides an accurate "pulse" on the racing community.

Marcus

nicktulloh
06-30-2003, 09:21 PM
I guess my only observation is also related to "Elliott said that he learned of CMRA’s intention to end its affiliation with CCS by reading it on Roadracingworld.com."

Did I miss something or isn't this the same way that we're finding out about it?

E. Templet
06-30-2003, 10:48 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Marcus McBain:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by CHRIS SMILEY:
Way to go board of directors! Who is CCS to tell our club how to decide matters anyway? If we did not feel good about our own leadership then we could not have grown so in the last 2 years.

Would be nice to give and receive input thru our M Board with polls, however, not everyone who races with the CMRA gets on the board to vote and some may not have access. I think it could only be a tool for spreading the word and discovering all the veiw points and angles on a particular issue.

BTW, nice press release! Smiley 506</div></div>SOP for many regional clubs is Pizza-N-Beer member meeting. 75-100 people show up, the Financial reports are given, votes taken, and all the dirty laundry is aired. Everyone has a good time. This statement includes membership observations at MRA, OMMRA, and WMMRA.

With that said, I think we have the opportunity to have quarterly on-line referendums on subjects such as endurance length, safety, affiliation, etc. that are advertised through the newly circulated newsletter. Because the BOD had insight to issues that require non-disclosure, that majority vote may not carry, BUT wouldn't it be nice to know that in a situation such as this that 90% of the folks supported the decision? I think it is taking the same step that commercial business did several years ago...utilizing technology to improve communication. I also believe it lowers the burden on the BOD and provides an accurate "pulse" on the racing community.

Marcus</div></div>Marcus, it would be very tedious to try to explain the pros and cons of every issue to every member. You would basically be asking a group of uninformed, inexperienced individuals "what type of O-ring to use on the space shuttle."

I believe you do your best to keep abreast of "what's happening in the motorcycling community." You and a few others are the exceptions. As you often state, lots of racers are only involved in racing for 2 years. What the heck to we know or care about any of this stuff? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

The only negative I see concerning this move is the fact that our leadership is currently provided by excellent businessmen, intelligent and knowledgeable with regard to the motorcycle racing community with years of management experience. What is to guarantee that this current management will continue or find suitable replacements in the future? I'm not downplaying this move or trying to be negative, I'm just concerned.

SMILEYMAN
07-01-2003, 08:27 AM
Marcus, I like the pizza/beer idea best. I vote we ditch the M-Board. BTW, I live in a dry county with no DSL accessability so my place is out!
Smiley

Yuliya Marcer
07-01-2003, 11:40 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by E. Templet:
Marcus, it would be very tedious to try to explain the pros and cons of every issue to every member. You would basically be asking a group of uninformed, inexperienced individuals "what type of O-ring to use on the space shuttle."</div></div>Gene, I'm meaning this in the best possible way, but this has come across very patronizing. Being uninformed was one of the issues brought up and what you are saying is that 'we can't inform everybody because they are uninformed'? I'm a bit confused.

Same goes for being inexperienced. Many of us do not have much racing experience under the belt, but it does not mean we do not have business, corporate, finance or management experience that allows us to comprehend the alternatives. There is really no need to insult the masses just yet /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif j/k

I do tend to agree that a major decision like this involves many variables to be considered; Brooks and BOD showed nothing but concern for CMRA and the membership, and that compbined with clear intelligence and competence allows me to trust their decision completely.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You and a few others are the exceptions. As you often state, lots of racers are only involved in racing for 2 years. What the heck to we know or care about any of this stuff? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>Well sure we care! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif We have a vested interest in making sure the organization is here long enough for me to get faster and progress from being a stationary backmarker to at least a rolling chicane LOL

I may not know all that much about space shuttle O-rings, but if there is ever a need for corporate law advice you know where to find me /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Yuliya

David Branyon
07-01-2003, 02:44 PM
I'll have to go with Gene on this one. I care a whole lot about the best line through T1 at TWS, or getting my FZR back together, or things racing, but I really do not have the motivation to dig into the details of the trade-off of contingency, insurance, printing, uniforms, timing/scoring systems, fees, etc. that are the basis of the decision on whether to be affiliated or not. Maybe I'm old, maybe I even got wise (maybe not), but I have decided I don't need to know everything about everything. I thank the BOD for taking the huge amount of time necessary to understand the issues and make the decision. And I trust that they made the best decision for all involved.

cedestech
07-01-2003, 03:13 PM
Before this thread was 2 replies long this is the exact letter I sent to Mr. Ulrich.....

As far as Mr.Elliots ponderings to the memberships
wants and desires it was not put to a general vote.

We (the CMRA) elect BOD (board of director) positions the same as we
(Americans) elect congress , house and presidential candidates. By electing
the people we deem best suited for the position we also entrust them to make
decisions on our behalf that best suit us as a
club or citizen.

Does Mr. Elliot have a direct say in his taxes, local and
national laws or his countries foreign policy? No.
He entrusts those decisions to others the same as
the CMRA's membership does to our elected BOD.

You would have to be brain dead and not paying
attention for the last year to not know this was a
action being discussed and appraised by the BOD and
membership at large.

The fact that this action may have been a surprise to
Mr. Elliot is a example of the reasoning behind the
decision. He ( CCS ) knew of our dissatisfaction
with the services being rendered for quite awhile and has done nothing but
give lip service to remediate it.

ThankYou,

Emmett Dibble
6919 Live Oak
Rosharon, TX.
77583
281.369.3474
832.594.9055

..... and it is exactly how I feel about the
subject. Everyone who wants to know , knows who their BOD members are. All with out exception will give you their full undivided attention.
At the end of the day they have to do what they feel is best for "THE CMRA". We (the CMRA and
Americans) use a representative form
of government. It is not majority rules. That
would be kaos. We do not and can not allow that to happen.

Michael Hamric
07-01-2003, 06:07 PM
Emmett, your letter is attached to the original 6/30/03 post in RRW along with a letter from Steve Creech. Good work guys.

http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/index.html

MH

panthercity
07-01-2003, 06:07 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Emmett Dibble:
...
We (the CMRA) elect BOD (board of director) positions the same as we (Americans) elect congress , house and presidential candidates. By electing the people we deem best suited for the position we also entrust them to make
decisions on our behalf that best suit us as a
club or citizen...</div></div>Emmettt, I would never be so rude, or mean spirited, as to suggest that the BOD of CMRA was comparable to the current group of elected officials in D.C.

(I wish I could put a smily face here, butt I can't.)

cedestech
07-01-2003, 07:42 PM
Oh.....

I had no idea it was posted.

Anyhoo.....

Long Live the CMRA!!!

(if there is a vote for endentured servitude of the current BOD and President then count me in.
I say we chain them to their current positions
for the rest of their natural lives and then only
let their rotting corpes go when sutable replacements are found!)

Chuck Ergle
07-01-2003, 09:06 PM
You're crazy, Emmitt! When my second two year term is up at the end of 2004, I'm done with it. I just hope we have been making the correct decisions to keep this thing alive and growing and getting better (although they may be unpopular in the short term or with the misinformed). TGF term limits!

E. Templet
07-01-2003, 10:29 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Yuliya Dvorak:
[QUOTE]

I do tend to agree that a major decision like this involves many variables to be considered; Brooks and BOD showed nothing but concern for CMRA and the membership, and that compbined with clear intelligence and competence allows me to trust their decision completely.
Yuliya</div></div>Then you and I agree. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Brooks Gremmels
07-02-2003, 09:41 AM
Thanks for the votes of confidence. Things have gotten easier on the BOD this year, perhaps because it has earned the support of the membership. Mostly because Nancy had proven to be so capable in handling the daily affairs of the organization.
With the number of changes that the club has gone thru the past couple of years it's natural that there were suspicions and concerns about the "direction" the CMRA was taking. This BOD just happened to be the group in office when some of the major events took place. They were headed that direction anyway.
I don't honestly know why I've gotten so deep into it. Part is the challenge, part is the fact that the timing coincided with my retirement from business and most of it had to do with seeing I had experience that might be of benefit to the club. Earlier my motives were questioned when it should have been my sanity!!
The other BOD members have sacrificed their time on a daily basis to commnicate by phone and email on club business. They have traveled at least six times a year to Dallas for BOD meetings. And they have done it with no incentive other than to make the club even better.
The payoff to all of this is the type of support for the sanctioning decision that was recently made.
We have a BOD election coming up. The nominations will be opened with the next newsletter. Two of the current BOD members retire due to term limits. Some current BOD members will run again and there will be perhaps two more seats to be filled with new members. Just two years ago there was not a single nomination for these positions and they were more or less appointed. Now there will be a contest for the open seats. That speaks volumns about the vitality of the club. More about this later.
Brooks

Yuliya Marcer
07-02-2003, 01:37 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Then you and I agree. </div></div>Well SHUCKS!! I was so hoping to get in trouble here.. LOL

Brooks, if there is anything I can be of assistance with, please let me know. Practicing with the largest law firm in Texas has its benefits, such as access to hundreds of years of combined experience. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

marcus mcbain
07-02-2003, 06:36 PM
Brooks,

Do give yourself and the BOD a pat on the back. For many years people ran for the BOD and then ran away. The fact of the matter is that years ago, no one wanted to run for the BOD because there was not a reasonable expectation for required change. Having known many past BOD members from the previous years, the environment of today is totally different. This is a good thing.

In regards to issues, etc for the BOD election, I am sure the riders will look at not only the issues, but rather the people that are communicating those messages.

Marcus

E. Templet
07-02-2003, 07:52 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Yuliya Dvorak:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Then you and I agree. </div></div>Well SHUCKS!! I was so hoping to get in trouble here.. LOL:D</div></div>Watch it lady, I'm married. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Yuliya Marcer
07-03-2003, 10:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Watch it lady, I'm married</div></div>Well in that case, my condolences..

Eric Heddles
07-03-2003, 01:13 PM
This is just the opinion of a has-been.

I think this is a great decision that the BOD has made. I have had my differences with Kevin Elliott simply because there were times that he would ignore logic and common sense when possibly shuffling requirements for some of the lightweight classes and the sportsman classes. I won't go into gross details but it boils down to an answer of "because I said so". From here on out, I truly believe that people who race the smaller or odd bikes will get a fair chance to voice opinions on a variety of classes if the structure stays roughly the same. This will be due to the fact that the BOD will listen to the racers and also because the BOD is always looking at the future instead of living in the past. As mentioned before, the big surprise that Mr. Elliott learned of this through the internet further shows that he was turning a deaf ear to the people that mattered. I'm sure he did some good things for the club and the sport and I can appreciate the things behind the scenes - so for that, thanks. But this is the best news for the CMRA in a long time.

Bryan Norton
07-07-2003, 10:38 AM
The reason the BOD is elected and helps to drive the direction of the club is to remove politics from the CMRA racers.

I really don't want to see our club moving to an environment where people run on 'platforms' to be elected, and create a more political climate. I can just imagine; posters and flyers about the 'candidates' including political affiliations.

This is not about politics. This is about racing. This is about CLUB racing.
Vintage, Motard, Jr Motard, Classic, regional endurance, and of course the 'big bike' contingency based classes.

The BoD decided to do make this change known early enough that the members will be ready and informed, and we can begin getting contingencies and sponsorships ready in time for a KICK BUTT 2004. From what is already in progress for next year, I can say that there will be no loss of opportunities. Contingencies and sponsorships will remain (and actually most likely grow significantly)

Thanks much to Steve and Emmitt for publicly supporting the club and direction. Thanks to all those who lurk these message boards, and tell us how much they support us in person, and to those who also do so here at the BBS.

Change is never easy. When we saw the opportunity which existed with CCS, it looked like the best direction at the time. The introduction of RPM and the return of a national series to our region helped force the decision to join CCS. I think we may have jumped the gun a bit, though, and significant benefits never materialized. The direction of CCS and Formula USA is still not completely clear to me. I wish for them the best, and hope that they can prosper and continue to promote the sport but at the same time I want the CMRA to prosper, and we need the attention and focus our club deserves. I think this can be best served by the seperation from CCS.