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Walter Walker
12-18-2007, 11:57 PM
The following are the big ones.

(1) Transponders will be mounted on the left front fork leg between the triple clamps, or on the left side of the front fairing stay.

(2) No borders or outlines on numbers. A single rear number plate will be allowed on top of the tail section on machines that have limited tail section space.

(3) 17' OEM type wheels will be allowed on older EX250s in E Superstock.

(4) Super Motard will now be: up to 250cc water cooled singles, and: up to 400cc air cooled singles, all others will go to Unlimited Motard. ("Super Motard" machines will be allowed in Clubman)

(5) Classic will be limited to 1997 and older machines. Classic bikes will be allowed to ride down a class.

(6) Tank sliders will be required on late model R6 and ZX6. (Other models may be added.)

(7) Mufflers, all machines must have them. If a muffler falls off the Rider or team will be black flagged and not allowed to continue until it is replaced.

Endurance Rules.

(1) All machines will be placed on a stand for refueling.

(2) In the event of a Red Flag scoring will be backed up 2 laps.

Mini Rules.

(1) F7 - Stock NSR50 allowed
F6 - 135cc 4-stroke air-cooled single, superbike or formula rules
F5 - CRF150R in any form out of class
Jr. Motard - allow 110cc bikes with stock exhaust and airbox we may add gearing restrictions if needed.

(2) F4 - remove the line (200cc 4-stroke water cooled)

These are not the only changes; these are just the big ones. I will post more as the come along.

Walter Walker
12-18-2007, 11:57 PM
The following are the big ones.

(1) Transponders will be mounted on the left front fork leg between the triple clamps, or on the left side of the front fairing stay.

(2) No borders or outlines on numbers. A single rear number plate will be allowed on top of the tail section on machines that have limited tail section space.

(3) 17' OEM type wheels will be allowed on older EX250s in E Superstock.

(4) Super Motard will now be: up to 250cc water cooled singles, and: up to 400cc air cooled singles, all others will go to Unlimited Motard. ("Super Motard" machines will be allowed in Clubman)

(5) Classic will be limited to 1997 and older machines. Classic bikes will be allowed to ride down a class.

(6) Tank sliders will be required on late model R6 and ZX6. (Other models may be added.)

(7) Mufflers, all machines must have them. If a muffler falls off the Rider or team will be black flagged and not allowed to continue until it is replaced.

Endurance Rules.

(1) All machines will be placed on a stand for refueling.

(2) In the event of a Red Flag scoring will be backed up 2 laps.

Mini Rules.

(1) F7 - Stock NSR50 allowed
F6 - 135cc 4-stroke air-cooled single, superbike or formula rules
F5 - CRF150R in any form out of class
Jr. Motard - allow 110cc bikes with stock exhaust and airbox we may add gearing restrictions if needed.

(2) F4 - remove the line (200cc 4-stroke water cooled)

These are not the only changes; these are just the big ones. I will post more as the come along.

Andrew Sukach
12-19-2007, 02:31 PM
"...Classic bikes will be allowed to ride down a class."

"Riding down" implies a hierarchy, which seems straightforward in the case of the "letter" classes (though I would hope E Superstock will be shielded from this). Are the other "branches" of sprint classes included in this scheme? For example:

Can an older Heavyweight twins bike ride in Lightweight twins?
Can an older F1 bike "ride down" in F2?
Can an older Unlimited Motard "ride down" in Super Motard?
Can an F40 rider on an older heavyweight "ride down" in F40 lightweight?

I hope these questions aren't seen as off-the-wall nitpicks--as someone who can't afford to race a new bike, I am thrilled to see the club offer more opportunities for older bikes to be competitive and want to know the details.

Thanks,

Andrew

Andrew Sukach
12-19-2007, 02:31 PM
"...Classic bikes will be allowed to ride down a class."

"Riding down" implies a hierarchy, which seems straightforward in the case of the "letter" classes (though I would hope E Superstock will be shielded from this). Are the other "branches" of sprint classes included in this scheme? For example:

Can an older Heavyweight twins bike ride in Lightweight twins?
Can an older F1 bike "ride down" in F2?
Can an older Unlimited Motard "ride down" in Super Motard?
Can an F40 rider on an older heavyweight "ride down" in F40 lightweight?

I hope these questions aren't seen as off-the-wall nitpicks--as someone who can't afford to race a new bike, I am thrilled to see the club offer more opportunities for older bikes to be competitive and want to know the details.

Thanks,

Andrew

barrent
12-19-2007, 02:52 PM
Walter, what was the reason behind the transponder location change?

Thanks, David.

barrent
12-19-2007, 02:52 PM
Walter, what was the reason behind the transponder location change?

Thanks, David.

Ronnie Hay
12-19-2007, 03:05 PM
Two primary reasons:

1) Testing has shown that a vertically mounted TX gives a better signal to noise ratio. This in turn, decreases the likelihood of the TX not being picked up by the scoring loop. Which also makes life easier for the scoring crew.

2) If you lose your tail section in a crash, you still have your TX. And if you lose your forks in a crash, you really no longer need to be concerned about your TX /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif

--
Ronnie

Ronnie Hay
12-19-2007, 03:05 PM
Two primary reasons:

1) Testing has shown that a vertically mounted TX gives a better signal to noise ratio. This in turn, decreases the likelihood of the TX not being picked up by the scoring loop. Which also makes life easier for the scoring crew.

2) If you lose your tail section in a crash, you still have your TX. And if you lose your forks in a crash, you really no longer need to be concerned about your TX /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif

--
Ronnie

Danny Clark
12-19-2007, 03:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ronnie Hay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And if you lose your forks in a crash, you really no longer need to be concerned about your TX /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif

--
Ronnie </div></div>

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif good one!

Danny Clark
12-19-2007, 03:17 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ronnie Hay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And if you lose your forks in a crash, you really no longer need to be concerned about your TX /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif

--
Ronnie </div></div>

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif good one!

Christopher Corder
12-19-2007, 04:29 PM
My transponder has been shot into space on a couple of different crashing occasions. Once, it spent nearly two months buried in the east Texas dirt. I am thrilled with the move to the forks bc those things are expensive.

Christopher Corder
12-19-2007, 04:29 PM
My transponder has been shot into space on a couple of different crashing occasions. Once, it spent nearly two months buried in the east Texas dirt. I am thrilled with the move to the forks bc those things are expensive.

barrent
12-20-2007, 09:00 AM
Thanks Ronnie, and I thought it was just so I could get practice filling in the holes in the tail section from the old transponder location /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Thanks for the explanation /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

David.

barrent
12-20-2007, 09:00 AM
Thanks Ronnie, and I thought it was just so I could get practice filling in the holes in the tail section from the old transponder location /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Thanks for the explanation /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

David.

Swift E
12-20-2007, 09:52 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Walter Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The following are the big ones.
Mini Rules.

(1) F7 - Stock NSR50 allowed
</div></div>

As mentioned in the other thread,
Does "Stock" include Carb and Pipe or strictly STOCK NSR?

Swift E
12-20-2007, 09:52 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Walter Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The following are the big ones.
Mini Rules.

(1) F7 - Stock NSR50 allowed
</div></div>

As mentioned in the other thread,
Does "Stock" include Carb and Pipe or strictly STOCK NSR?

jhammy49
12-20-2007, 03:30 PM
Late model R6 and ZX6. Can I get a list of years that this includes?


Thanks
John

jhammy49
12-20-2007, 03:30 PM
Late model R6 and ZX6. Can I get a list of years that this includes?


Thanks
John

Ronnie Hay
12-20-2007, 04:25 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: John Hamlett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Late model R6 and ZX6. Can I get a list of years that this includes?
</div></div>

2006 and more recent Yamaha R6
2007 and more recent Kawasaki ZX6R

This is not absolute and changes/revisions could be made based upon the Race Director's empirical observations. More than anything else we are just trying to avoid:

1) time spent having to clean up fuel off the track and
2) minimize the likelihood of a fire

--
Ronnie

Ronnie Hay
12-20-2007, 04:25 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: John Hamlett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Late model R6 and ZX6. Can I get a list of years that this includes?
</div></div>

2006 and more recent Yamaha R6
2007 and more recent Kawasaki ZX6R

This is not absolute and changes/revisions could be made based upon the Race Director's empirical observations. More than anything else we are just trying to avoid:

1) time spent having to clean up fuel off the track and
2) minimize the likelihood of a fire

--
Ronnie

John Orchard
12-20-2007, 04:49 PM
Great news about the transponder....! Thx!

I am interested in the thought process behind backing the endurance race up 2 laps in the event of a red flag however. I'm sure there's a logical driver for this decision, just interested in understanding the thought process and what we're accomplishing with this change!

Thanks, John

John Orchard
12-20-2007, 04:49 PM
Great news about the transponder....! Thx!

I am interested in the thought process behind backing the endurance race up 2 laps in the event of a red flag however. I'm sure there's a logical driver for this decision, just interested in understanding the thought process and what we're accomplishing with this change!

Thanks, John

Ronnie Hay
12-20-2007, 05:56 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: John Orchard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am interested in the thought process behind backing the endurance race up 2 laps in the event of a red flag </div></div>

Much like my prior response <s>Once again</s>, this simplifies the red flag procedure for electronic scoring. The end result should be less red flag confusion, and quicker grid info.
--
Ronnie

Ronnie Hay
12-20-2007, 05:56 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: John Orchard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am interested in the thought process behind backing the endurance race up 2 laps in the event of a red flag </div></div>

Much like my prior response <s>Once again</s>, this simplifies the red flag procedure for electronic scoring. The end result should be less red flag confusion, and quicker grid info.
--
Ronnie

John Orchard
12-20-2007, 06:18 PM
So, how does reverting back 2 laps vs. 1 lap makes e-scoring easier?

(just trying to understand since it's not obvious to me.)

Thx

John Orchard
12-20-2007, 06:18 PM
So, how does reverting back 2 laps vs. 1 lap makes e-scoring easier?

(just trying to understand since it's not obvious to me.)

Thx

Walter Walker
12-20-2007, 07:31 PM
Backing up 2 laps will completely stabilize the field.
With no broken laps for E-scoring to sort through we can print a restart grid quicker and get back to racing sooner.
This should reduce the effect of red flags on the overall outcome of the race.
I hope it will cut down on the confusion and protests that always follow red flags.

Walter Walker
12-20-2007, 07:31 PM
Backing up 2 laps will completely stabilize the field.
With no broken laps for E-scoring to sort through we can print a restart grid quicker and get back to racing sooner.
This should reduce the effect of red flags on the overall outcome of the race.
I hope it will cut down on the confusion and protests that always follow red flags.

JesseJohnson
12-20-2007, 10:32 PM
It's called the Joe "Protestiano" rule..

Props to the muffler rule.

JesseJohnson
12-20-2007, 10:32 PM
It's called the Joe "Protestiano" rule..

Props to the muffler rule.

Shane Zelm
12-21-2007, 12:40 AM
going back 2 laps? are we moving forward or backward with the technology available to us? i'm curious how long it takes for electronic scoring to freeze the field once a red flag has been thrown. if there is a way to make this process more efficient maybe we could use it when a red flag is thrown in sprints. please clarify what a "broken lap" is. if it's what i think it is then maybe the new transponder location will correct that.

Shane Zelm
12-21-2007, 12:40 AM
going back 2 laps? are we moving forward or backward with the technology available to us? i'm curious how long it takes for electronic scoring to freeze the field once a red flag has been thrown. if there is a way to make this process more efficient maybe we could use it when a red flag is thrown in sprints. please clarify what a "broken lap" is. if it's what i think it is then maybe the new transponder location will correct that.

Christopher Corder
12-21-2007, 06:30 AM
Red flag comes out and you always get:
1. The team pissing and moaning that they crossed the finish line just before the red flag came out.
2. The team that saw the crash so they assume that the moment of the crash in when the flag came out.
3. The team that tries to take advantage of the red flag to work the system by arguing about where they were and where they should be.
This ends all that which makes electronic scoring easier and more timely. That is a good thing.

And the muffler rule is a godsend. No longer will I have to sit from hour 2 through hour 6 of a mini endurance listening to a two stroke with no muffler go by every minute and a half.

Christopher Corder
12-21-2007, 06:30 AM
Red flag comes out and you always get:
1. The team pissing and moaning that they crossed the finish line just before the red flag came out.
2. The team that saw the crash so they assume that the moment of the crash in when the flag came out.
3. The team that tries to take advantage of the red flag to work the system by arguing about where they were and where they should be.
This ends all that which makes electronic scoring easier and more timely. That is a good thing.

And the muffler rule is a godsend. No longer will I have to sit from hour 2 through hour 6 of a mini endurance listening to a two stroke with no muffler go by every minute and a half.

John Orchard
12-21-2007, 08:46 AM
What I don't understand is that no matter how many laps the race is 'backed up', you still end up with teams that are on partial or incomplete laps.

I don't follow what we've eliminated.

If anything, it's possible that this change may increase the amount of questions among teams trying to figure out where they were on the track two laps ago instead of the most recent lap.

I'm just and Idiot trying to understand....:)

John Orchard
12-21-2007, 08:46 AM
What I don't understand is that no matter how many laps the race is 'backed up', you still end up with teams that are on partial or incomplete laps.

I don't follow what we've eliminated.

If anything, it's possible that this change may increase the amount of questions among teams trying to figure out where they were on the track two laps ago instead of the most recent lap.

I'm just and Idiot trying to understand....:)

Derek Delpero
12-21-2007, 09:00 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: John Orchard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm just and Idiot trying to understand....:) </div></div>

Doesn't make any sense to me either. If anything it adds work to e-scoring because they now have to delete twice as many laps from the application. There is also an annoying little bug in the Orbits application that makes scrolling through laps and selecting those laps tricky. The more laps to select, the more difficult it is to select those laps.

I also don't understand why it is difficult to delete only the broken lap. If e-scoring was having difficulty with this, it's a training issue, and someone should have asked me to clarify the process.

The same teams who are confused about how red-flags work will continue to be confused.

Derek Delpero
12-21-2007, 09:00 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: John Orchard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm just and Idiot trying to understand....:) </div></div>

Doesn't make any sense to me either. If anything it adds work to e-scoring because they now have to delete twice as many laps from the application. There is also an annoying little bug in the Orbits application that makes scrolling through laps and selecting those laps tricky. The more laps to select, the more difficult it is to select those laps.

I also don't understand why it is difficult to delete only the broken lap. If e-scoring was having difficulty with this, it's a training issue, and someone should have asked me to clarify the process.

The same teams who are confused about how red-flags work will continue to be confused.

Christopher Corder
12-21-2007, 09:26 AM
reference post #4 on this page. If the Race Director believes this, it is good enough for me.

Christopher Corder
12-21-2007, 09:26 AM
reference post #4 on this page. If the Race Director believes this, it is good enough for me.

Derek Delpero
12-21-2007, 09:41 AM
Justing pointing out that if we were having trouble getting grids out quickly after red-flags that the problem isn't how many laps we're removing, but rather a user training problem. Furthermore, it takes more work to delete more laps; therefore, it would seem to me that printing grids after a red-flag will take longer.

But what do I know? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Derek Delpero
12-21-2007, 09:41 AM
Justing pointing out that if we were having trouble getting grids out quickly after red-flags that the problem isn't how many laps we're removing, but rather a user training problem. Furthermore, it takes more work to delete more laps; therefore, it would seem to me that printing grids after a red-flag will take longer.

But what do I know? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Christopher Corder
12-21-2007, 09:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek Delpero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But what do I know? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif </div></div>
/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Christopher Corder
12-21-2007, 09:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek Delpero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But what do I know? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif </div></div>
/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

cdenney
12-21-2007, 05:29 PM
Transponder Question. Walter, Can we get some pictures posted as to what is acceptable mounting of the transponder some time after the first of the year so those of us who are new to the sport can get some ideas on mounting techniques. Thanks

cdenney
12-21-2007, 05:29 PM
Transponder Question. Walter, Can we get some pictures posted as to what is acceptable mounting of the transponder some time after the first of the year so those of us who are new to the sport can get some ideas on mounting techniques. Thanks

binskies
12-21-2007, 07:29 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chris Denney</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Transponder Question. Walter, Can we get some pictures posted as to what is acceptable mounting of the transponder some time after the first of the year so those of us who are new to the sport can get some ideas on mounting techniques. Thanks </div></div>

I was going to ask the same thing. What is a recommended way of mounting the transponder so it remains secure?

binskies
12-21-2007, 07:29 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chris Denney</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Transponder Question. Walter, Can we get some pictures posted as to what is acceptable mounting of the transponder some time after the first of the year so those of us who are new to the sport can get some ideas on mounting techniques. Thanks </div></div>

I was going to ask the same thing. What is a recommended way of mounting the transponder so it remains secure?

Leo McKeown
12-21-2007, 08:57 PM
Yes, please and maybe include a pic of the hard wired version,

just a question here but does anyone know where the CCS mounts transponders?? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif

Leo McKeown
12-21-2007, 08:57 PM
Yes, please and maybe include a pic of the hard wired version,

just a question here but does anyone know where the CCS mounts transponders?? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif

Danny Dominguez
12-22-2007, 05:16 AM
Everywhere Dustin and I raced last yr,wera,ccs,asra,had it mounted on the fork...Dustin has fallen a few times with it,zip tied,wired,bolted and any combo of this on the tail section and it came off..He fell at RD Atlanta,bike was hit,tumble,was hit again then burst into a fireball,the transponder was mounted on the fork with only 2 zip ties and never came off.....My opinion the forks are the place to mount it...Danny

Danny Dominguez
12-22-2007, 05:16 AM
Everywhere Dustin and I raced last yr,wera,ccs,asra,had it mounted on the fork...Dustin has fallen a few times with it,zip tied,wired,bolted and any combo of this on the tail section and it came off..He fell at RD Atlanta,bike was hit,tumble,was hit again then burst into a fireball,the transponder was mounted on the fork with only 2 zip ties and never came off.....My opinion the forks are the place to mount it...Danny

Chris Randle
12-23-2007, 05:45 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Walter Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

(4) Super Motard will now be: up to 250cc water cooled singles, and: up to 400cc air cooled singles, all others will go to Unlimited Motard. ("Super Motard" machines will be allowed in Clubman)

</div></div>

So, CRF450s, YZF426's and such can only race in Unlimited Motard?

Chris Randle
12-23-2007, 05:45 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Walter Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

(4) Super Motard will now be: up to 250cc water cooled singles, and: up to 400cc air cooled singles, all others will go to Unlimited Motard. ("Super Motard" machines will be allowed in Clubman)

</div></div>

So, CRF450s, YZF426's and such can only race in Unlimited Motard?

Christopher Corder
12-23-2007, 07:19 PM
[/quote]

So, CRF450s, YZF426's and such can only race in Unlimited Motard? [/quote]

Yes, plus F2, etc.

Christopher Corder
12-23-2007, 07:19 PM
[/quote]

So, CRF450s, YZF426's and such can only race in Unlimited Motard? [/quote]

Yes, plus F2, etc.

Walter Walker
12-23-2007, 08:20 PM
Chris R. the bikes you listed can race in B, C, and D Superstock and Superbike as well as LW Twins, HW Twins, Formula 2, and if you feel froggy there’s always Formula 1.
Oh, I almost forgot if you’re old enough there's Formula 40, and Formula 40 LW.
Read the rule book grasshopper the key words are "Unlimited Singles".

Walter Walker
12-23-2007, 08:20 PM
Chris R. the bikes you listed can race in B, C, and D Superstock and Superbike as well as LW Twins, HW Twins, Formula 2, and if you feel froggy there’s always Formula 1.
Oh, I almost forgot if you’re old enough there's Formula 40, and Formula 40 LW.
Read the rule book grasshopper the key words are "Unlimited Singles".

Chris Randle
12-23-2007, 09:03 PM
Thanks for the clarification guys.

Chris Randle
12-23-2007, 09:03 PM
Thanks for the clarification guys.

Shane Zelm
12-24-2007, 01:05 AM
i would like a response regarding the 2 lap back endurance rule change please. preferably by someone who was involved with the change. i don't think i am the only one who would like some clarification. thanks.

Shane Zelm
12-24-2007, 01:05 AM
i would like a response regarding the 2 lap back endurance rule change please. preferably by someone who was involved with the change. i don't think i am the only one who would like some clarification. thanks.

Walter Walker
12-24-2007, 09:28 AM
I believe I already did that earlier in this thread.

Walter Walker
12-24-2007, 09:28 AM
I believe I already did that earlier in this thread.

Christopher Corder
12-24-2007, 11:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Walter Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Backing up 2 laps will completely stabilize the field.
With no broken laps for E-scoring to sort through we can print a restart grid quicker and get back to racing sooner.
This should reduce the effect of red flags on the overall outcome of the race.
I hope it will cut down on the confusion and protests that always follow red flags.

</div></div>

Christopher Corder
12-24-2007, 11:37 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Walter Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Backing up 2 laps will completely stabilize the field.
With no broken laps for E-scoring to sort through we can print a restart grid quicker and get back to racing sooner.
This should reduce the effect of red flags on the overall outcome of the race.
I hope it will cut down on the confusion and protests that always follow red flags.

</div></div>

John Orchard
12-24-2007, 05:53 PM
Hey Walter, I'm still intersted in how this change accomplishes that.

Even more so now that the electronic scoring guru has said he doesn't understand how this change helps....

John Orchard
12-24-2007, 05:53 PM
Hey Walter, I'm still intersted in how this change accomplishes that.

Even more so now that the electronic scoring guru has said he doesn't understand how this change helps....

Shane Zelm
12-24-2007, 11:32 PM
+1 john and derek.
i was hoping for a reply to my post and not just a general response for the rule change. thanks.

Shane Zelm
12-24-2007, 11:32 PM
+1 john and derek.
i was hoping for a reply to my post and not just a general response for the rule change. thanks.

ChemiKaze
12-25-2007, 12:59 AM
tail section number plates question:
does it matter which direction the numbers on the tail section are facing or will we conform to FIM rules?

ChemiKaze
12-25-2007, 12:59 AM
tail section number plates question:
does it matter which direction the numbers on the tail section are facing or will we conform to FIM rules?

Walter Walker
12-25-2007, 05:34 PM
Shane, John, Am I missing something here?
I've answered your questions.
I'm really not sure what you guys want.
Let me say this, I believe that this procedure will work but if it does not I will be the first to say so and we will change it.
Final answer.

Walter Walker
12-25-2007, 05:34 PM
Shane, John, Am I missing something here?
I've answered your questions.
I'm really not sure what you guys want.
Let me say this, I believe that this procedure will work but if it does not I will be the first to say so and we will change it.
Final answer.

Walter Walker
12-25-2007, 05:40 PM
Two options will be allowed for the rear number display.
1. Numbers mounted on both sides of the rear tail section.
2. Number mounted on top of the rear tail section with the number orientated so as to be viewed from the
rear of the motorcycle.

Walter Walker
12-25-2007, 05:40 PM
Two options will be allowed for the rear number display.
1. Numbers mounted on both sides of the rear tail section.
2. Number mounted on top of the rear tail section with the number orientated so as to be viewed from the
rear of the motorcycle.

Danny Clark
12-25-2007, 05:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chris Denney</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Transponder Question. Walter, Can we get some pictures posted as to what is acceptable mounting of the transponder some time after the first of the year so those of us who are new to the sport can get some ideas on mounting techniques. Thanks </div></div>

How about this?
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/815/transpondermountnm9.jpg

Danny Clark
12-25-2007, 05:46 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chris Denney</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Transponder Question. Walter, Can we get some pictures posted as to what is acceptable mounting of the transponder some time after the first of the year so those of us who are new to the sport can get some ideas on mounting techniques. Thanks </div></div>

How about this?
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/815/transpondermountnm9.jpg

Walter Walker
12-26-2007, 07:37 AM
Danny, that looks good but I hate to see a $350.00 transponder attached to the bike with a $.03 zip tie.
A hose clamp makes better since to me.
It should be mounted in a way that we can read the number and see the light.

Walter Walker
12-26-2007, 07:37 AM
Danny, that looks good but I hate to see a $350.00 transponder attached to the bike with a $.03 zip tie.
A hose clamp makes better since to me.
It should be mounted in a way that we can read the number and see the light.

marcus mcbain
12-26-2007, 08:52 AM
I would recommend zip ties. We have been using them for 7 years now (mounting as shown by Danny Clark). On many bikes, the area is a little tight and the ability for the bracket to "give" just a bit will allow the transponder to not get consistently beat up if your steering damper, cables, etc. are constantly making contact. I don't believe I have ever seen a hose clamp used.

Zip ties will work very well.

Marcus

marcus mcbain
12-26-2007, 08:52 AM
I would recommend zip ties. We have been using them for 7 years now (mounting as shown by Danny Clark). On many bikes, the area is a little tight and the ability for the bracket to "give" just a bit will allow the transponder to not get consistently beat up if your steering damper, cables, etc. are constantly making contact. I don't believe I have ever seen a hose clamp used.

Zip ties will work very well.

Marcus

Christopher Corder
12-26-2007, 10:05 AM
Now you guys tell me. I drilled two holes in my forks just like the tail and all this red oil came out. wth? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Christopher Corder
12-26-2007, 10:05 AM
Now you guys tell me. I drilled two holes in my forks just like the tail and all this red oil came out. wth? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Danny Clark
12-26-2007, 11:43 AM
I didn't think about hose clamps.... and rotating the transponder any more to the side results in contact with my Ram Air tubes, it's pretty tight in there.

Danny Clark
12-26-2007, 11:43 AM
I didn't think about hose clamps.... and rotating the transponder any more to the side results in contact with my Ram Air tubes, it's pretty tight in there.

Darnell Dorsey
12-27-2007, 09:59 PM
I will have to mount mine on the fairing stay because it is a hard wired unit. Do you mean on the fairing stay where it comes off the neck of the frame or on the upper part that goes up to the windshield. I'm guessing down by the frame but I want to be sure. It will be easier to see if it is down by the neck. Thanks

Darnell Dorsey
12-27-2007, 09:59 PM
I will have to mount mine on the fairing stay because it is a hard wired unit. Do you mean on the fairing stay where it comes off the neck of the frame or on the upper part that goes up to the windshield. I'm guessing down by the frame but I want to be sure. It will be easier to see if it is down by the neck. Thanks

Walter Walker
12-28-2007, 08:03 AM
It needs to be close to the steering head and on the left side of the stay with number visible.

Walter Walker
12-28-2007, 08:03 AM
It needs to be close to the steering head and on the left side of the stay with number visible.

SAM ROMEO
12-28-2007, 06:01 PM
Walter
If Derek Delpero doesn't understand the reason for going back two laps for an endurance restart, I can't imagine there is a need for it. Either you or the board might take a closer look at this. You may be opening another can of worms
Another point that fly's past me is allowing any type of motard to run a stock class. Those are factory made race bikes and have no similarity to any street bike. Production rules were always for street bikes. Was that a misprint in your earlier reply where big bore watercooled motards can run? I don't like seeing them in LTW or any superbike classes either - same reason, those classes were originally designed for modified street bikes, not factory made racers. If this wasn't a mistake, I wish you and the board would rethink this.

SAM ROMEO
12-28-2007, 06:01 PM
Walter
If Derek Delpero doesn't understand the reason for going back two laps for an endurance restart, I can't imagine there is a need for it. Either you or the board might take a closer look at this. You may be opening another can of worms
Another point that fly's past me is allowing any type of motard to run a stock class. Those are factory made race bikes and have no similarity to any street bike. Production rules were always for street bikes. Was that a misprint in your earlier reply where big bore watercooled motards can run? I don't like seeing them in LTW or any superbike classes either - same reason, those classes were originally designed for modified street bikes, not factory made racers. If this wasn't a mistake, I wish you and the board would rethink this.

Walter Walker
12-28-2007, 10:39 PM
Sam, I'm taking another look at the two lap rule.
Stand by on this one.

Unlimited singles have been allowed in the classes I listed for years.
Both WERA and CCS have the same rules.

Walter Walker
12-28-2007, 10:39 PM
Sam, I'm taking another look at the two lap rule.
Stand by on this one.

Unlimited singles have been allowed in the classes I listed for years.
Both WERA and CCS have the same rules.

Walter Walker
12-28-2007, 11:07 PM
Another rule change announcement.

Section 6.5 pg 31 CMRA Endurance Series Classes and Regulations
"The original grid will be used for restarts within the first 30 minutes of the race."
We are taking this out.
We will print a new grid for all endurance restarts.

Walter Walker
12-28-2007, 11:07 PM
Another rule change announcement.

Section 6.5 pg 31 CMRA Endurance Series Classes and Regulations
"The original grid will be used for restarts within the first 30 minutes of the race."
We are taking this out.
We will print a new grid for all endurance restarts.

SAM ROMEO
12-29-2007, 01:13 PM
Walter
Because CCS and WERA does something doesn't make it right.
We plan on running only modified classes with modified bikes next year, so my only concern is for the folks running production classes with their SV's. That may be one reason SSD is so lightly populated these days - most 1st and 2nd year rookie experts don't stand a chance anywhere except TWS in that class against the motards.
Another thing that you have no control of thats hurting that class is Suzuki's B/S about paying contingency for current and one year old only.

SAM ROMEO
12-29-2007, 01:13 PM
Walter
Because CCS and WERA does something doesn't make it right.
We plan on running only modified classes with modified bikes next year, so my only concern is for the folks running production classes with their SV's. That may be one reason SSD is so lightly populated these days - most 1st and 2nd year rookie experts don't stand a chance anywhere except TWS in that class against the motards.
Another thing that you have no control of thats hurting that class is Suzuki's B/S about paying contingency for current and one year old only.

Walter Walker
12-29-2007, 02:55 PM
Sam, I'm not saying that we allow unlimited singles in several classes just because WERA and CCS do. I was just pointing out that this is not something new. I got the impression that you thought this was new for 08 when in fact it is not.

Walter Walker
12-29-2007, 02:55 PM
Sam, I'm not saying that we allow unlimited singles in several classes just because WERA and CCS do. I was just pointing out that this is not something new. I got the impression that you thought this was new for 08 when in fact it is not.

Walter Walker
12-29-2007, 03:21 PM
After further review there will be no changes made to current red flag scoring procedures for 08.

Walter Walker
12-29-2007, 03:21 PM
After further review there will be no changes made to current red flag scoring procedures for 08.

Darnell Dorsey
12-30-2007, 11:59 PM
Can we combine the Open classes to get the numbers up. Michelin has to have 6, Dunlop only pays if there are 10 in the class.

Darnell Dorsey
12-30-2007, 11:59 PM
Can we combine the Open classes to get the numbers up. Michelin has to have 6, Dunlop only pays if there are 10 in the class.

mnellis
12-31-2007, 12:22 AM
Darnell, how would we do that? Are you proposing we combine the A SS and A SB into a single "A" class? What rules would it fall under SS or SB? Or, are you suggesting that we just combine the SS and SB classes to run at the same time? If that's the case then it won't matter since there still will not be enough entries in the individual classes regardless of how many entries are in the race.

Basically, the classes are already combined in F1 so it would be a duplication of a class.

I'm with you on needing more entries in the A classes (especially towards the end of the year) but I don't think combining the classes is going to do it but I might be missing something here, that happens a lot to me lately.

mnellis
12-31-2007, 12:22 AM
Darnell, how would we do that? Are you proposing we combine the A SS and A SB into a single "A" class? What rules would it fall under SS or SB? Or, are you suggesting that we just combine the SS and SB classes to run at the same time? If that's the case then it won't matter since there still will not be enough entries in the individual classes regardless of how many entries are in the race.

Basically, the classes are already combined in F1 so it would be a duplication of a class.

I'm with you on needing more entries in the A classes (especially towards the end of the year) but I don't think combining the classes is going to do it but I might be missing something here, that happens a lot to me lately.

Darnell Dorsey
12-31-2007, 12:53 AM
Combine the A classes, F1 so that all the endurance bike out there that are already modified don't have to be turned back to Superstock. Lightweight bikes run the F2 rules. We ran F1 on a superstock bike with DOTs all but one race.

What do you mean the classes are combined in F1?

Darnell Dorsey
12-31-2007, 12:53 AM
Combine the A classes, F1 so that all the endurance bike out there that are already modified don't have to be turned back to Superstock. Lightweight bikes run the F2 rules. We ran F1 on a superstock bike with DOTs all but one race.

What do you mean the classes are combined in F1?

mnellis
12-31-2007, 05:53 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darnell Dorsey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Combine the A classes, F1 so that all the endurance bike out there that are already modified don't have to be turned back to Superstock. Lightweight bikes run the F2 rules. We ran F1 on a superstock bike with DOTs all but one race.

What do you mean the classes are combined in F1? </div></div>

I guess I should have said "effectively combined" since you can run anything in that class.

We ran F1 on a 600 but that doesn't mean we were as competitive as we should have been in the endurance class.

I don't think I'd mind combining the F1 and A SB classes but I don't think we should be combining the A SS and A SB classes. I run a SS bike and would be at a disadvantage against the SB spec bikes. Hell, I'm at a disadvantage with some of the 600's and 750 that run F1 and some of the A Classes. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Additionally, by combining A SS, A SB and F1, I could only enter two races F40 and the combined class and that wouldn't be enough to justify the weekend for me.

mnellis
12-31-2007, 05:53 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darnell Dorsey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Combine the A classes, F1 so that all the endurance bike out there that are already modified don't have to be turned back to Superstock. Lightweight bikes run the F2 rules. We ran F1 on a superstock bike with DOTs all but one race.

What do you mean the classes are combined in F1? </div></div>

I guess I should have said "effectively combined" since you can run anything in that class.

We ran F1 on a 600 but that doesn't mean we were as competitive as we should have been in the endurance class.

I don't think I'd mind combining the F1 and A SB classes but I don't think we should be combining the A SS and A SB classes. I run a SS bike and would be at a disadvantage against the SB spec bikes. Hell, I'm at a disadvantage with some of the 600's and 750 that run F1 and some of the A Classes. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Additionally, by combining A SS, A SB and F1, I could only enter two races F40 and the combined class and that wouldn't be enough to justify the weekend for me.

Darnell Dorsey
01-01-2008, 05:47 PM
I'm talking about endurance classes. In sprints I only get to run 3 classes as is. I don't race A SS because it is back to back with F40. But I'm talking about endurance classes. The quote you put from my post I'm talking about Endurance bikes. I guess in my first post I should have said Endurance classes. There are plenty of bikes for sprints. The endurance numbers are the problem. Sorry about the mixup.

Darnell Dorsey
01-01-2008, 05:47 PM
I'm talking about endurance classes. In sprints I only get to run 3 classes as is. I don't race A SS because it is back to back with F40. But I'm talking about endurance classes. The quote you put from my post I'm talking about Endurance bikes. I guess in my first post I should have said Endurance classes. There are plenty of bikes for sprints. The endurance numbers are the problem. Sorry about the mixup.

mnellis
01-01-2008, 07:58 PM
Yea, that back to back stuff gets tough for us old, fat guys. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

I see where you're coming from now. It sure helps when everyone is talking about the same thing.

mnellis
01-01-2008, 07:58 PM
Yea, that back to back stuff gets tough for us old, fat guys. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

I see where you're coming from now. It sure helps when everyone is talking about the same thing.

Jeremy White
01-06-2008, 10:34 PM
can we mix up the sunday schedule a little? make them motard guys stick around all day to run the last race every now and then.

Jeremy White
01-06-2008, 10:34 PM
can we mix up the sunday schedule a little? make them motard guys stick around all day to run the last race every now and then.

James Keenan
01-06-2008, 10:36 PM
don't they sometimes run in the morning before the endurance races?

James Keenan
01-06-2008, 10:36 PM
don't they sometimes run in the morning before the endurance races?

Jeremy White
01-06-2008, 10:41 PM
last year the flipped the schedule every weekend, but only flipped races 1-9 and 9-18. I'm saying flip 18 to 1 every now and then. no matter what it seemed like i was always in the last or second to last race and the guys racing the 1st 6 or 7 were always gone after lunch.

Jeremy White
01-06-2008, 10:41 PM
last year the flipped the schedule every weekend, but only flipped races 1-9 and 9-18. I'm saying flip 18 to 1 every now and then. no matter what it seemed like i was always in the last or second to last race and the guys racing the 1st 6 or 7 were always gone after lunch.

John Orchard
01-07-2008, 06:23 PM
Somehow I missed this post when it was made.

Thanks to all who were involved in taking another look at this one!

John Orchard
01-07-2008, 06:23 PM
Somehow I missed this post when it was made.

Thanks to all who were involved in taking another look at this one!

burner42
01-08-2008, 05:07 PM
What classes will the Ducati 848 be legal in? It is legal in AMA 600cc FX so will it be legal in the 600 classes?

burner42
01-08-2008, 05:07 PM
What classes will the Ducati 848 be legal in? It is legal in AMA 600cc FX so will it be legal in the 600 classes?

Chuck Ergle
01-08-2008, 08:17 PM
"up to 800cc four stroke water cooled twins" says the 2007 rulebook, and the aforementioned changes don't say anything about the C class...

Chuck Ergle
01-08-2008, 08:17 PM
"up to 800cc four stroke water cooled twins" says the 2007 rulebook, and the aforementioned changes don't say anything about the C class...

Ducatibob
01-10-2008, 02:22 PM
Myles just realizes that most of the CMRA is made up of Japanese bike riders who don't pay much attention to the beautiful Italians. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Ducatibob
01-10-2008, 02:22 PM
Myles just realizes that most of the CMRA is made up of Japanese bike riders who don't pay much attention to the beautiful Italians. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Patrick Kelly
01-12-2008, 04:08 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> (5) Classic will be limited to 1997 and older machines. <u>Classic bikes will be allowed to ride down a class.</u> </div></div>

This means I can run an old F3 against all the SV650s in the D classes and F2, correct?

Patrick Kelly
01-12-2008, 04:08 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> (5) Classic will be limited to 1997 and older machines. <u>Classic bikes will be allowed to ride down a class.</u> </div></div>

This means I can run an old F3 against all the SV650s in the D classes and F2, correct?

Walter Walker
01-12-2008, 03:11 PM
That is correct but keep in mind that if you enter a Superstock class on your Classic bike it must be Superstock legal.

Walter Walker
01-12-2008, 03:11 PM
That is correct but keep in mind that if you enter a Superstock class on your Classic bike it must be Superstock legal.

Patrick Kelly
01-12-2008, 06:00 PM
Thanks. I just wanted to confirm that I understood corectly before I ditched the 900ss I've been throwing buckets of money at for the last few months to get ready for the track. Now all I've got to do is find and prepare an F3 in the next 42 days...I think I can do it if I hurry.

Patrick Kelly
01-12-2008, 06:00 PM
Thanks. I just wanted to confirm that I understood corectly before I ditched the 900ss I've been throwing buckets of money at for the last few months to get ready for the track. Now all I've got to do is find and prepare an F3 in the next 42 days...I think I can do it if I hurry.

Gabe McClendon
01-12-2008, 09:47 PM
Does anyone know where to find '07 ZX6R tank sliders?
-thanks Gabe

Gabe McClendon
01-12-2008, 09:47 PM
Does anyone know where to find '07 ZX6R tank sliders?
-thanks Gabe

Bill Syfan
01-13-2008, 05:28 PM
The Ducati 848 will be legal in both C Superstock and C Superbike, with rumors of Ducati contingency in one of them . . .

Bill Syfan
01-13-2008, 05:28 PM
The Ducati 848 will be legal in both C Superstock and C Superbike, with rumors of Ducati contingency in one of them . . .

binskies
01-14-2008, 03:00 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gabe McClendon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone know where to find '07 ZX6R tank sliders?
-thanks Gabe</div></div>

Gabe, per Kevins post regarding new tech rqmts, tank sliders are currently available only for the R6, so the ZX6 won't require them.

binskies
01-14-2008, 03:00 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gabe McClendon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone know where to find '07 ZX6R tank sliders?
-thanks Gabe</div></div>

Gabe, per Kevins post regarding new tech rqmts, tank sliders are currently available only for the R6, so the ZX6 won't require them.

Ronald Harris
01-14-2008, 03:27 PM
Question about refueling on the stand during endurance. Does that include just swapping full tanks (i.e. rs125 chassis)?

Ronald Harris
01-14-2008, 03:27 PM
Question about refueling on the stand during endurance. Does that include just swapping full tanks (i.e. rs125 chassis)?

Bill Klindworth
01-14-2008, 04:42 PM
Thanks Danny....This helps my feeble brain understand how to do it /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Danny Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
How about this?
</div></div>

Bill Klindworth
01-14-2008, 04:42 PM
Thanks Danny....This helps my feeble brain understand how to do it /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Danny Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
How about this?
</div></div>

Gabe McClendon
01-15-2008, 12:07 AM
Thanks Robin & Kevin.
-Gabe

Gabe McClendon
01-15-2008, 12:07 AM
Thanks Robin & Kevin.
-Gabe

Walter Walker
01-16-2008, 11:47 PM
In an effort to simplify things.

1) Transponders will be mounted on the left front fork leg between the triple clamps; the # and light must be visible without removing any bodywork.

Do not mount it on the fairing stay.

Walter Walker
01-16-2008, 11:47 PM
In an effort to simplify things.

1) Transponders will be mounted on the left front fork leg between the triple clamps; the # and light must be visible without removing any bodywork.

Do not mount it on the fairing stay.

Ronald Harris
01-17-2008, 07:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ronald E. Harris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Question about refueling on the stand during endurance. Does that include just swapping full tanks (i.e. rs125 chassis)? </div></div>


Anybody???

Ronald Harris
01-17-2008, 07:43 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ronald E. Harris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Question about refueling on the stand during endurance. Does that include just swapping full tanks (i.e. rs125 chassis)? </div></div>


Anybody???

Ryan Rutkowski
01-17-2008, 08:27 AM
Ronald, I would say yes, due to the fact that the fuel hose must be disconected, and can cause fuel to spill on the motor. Plus it is considered refueling

Ryan Rutkowski
01-17-2008, 08:27 AM
Ronald, I would say yes, due to the fact that the fuel hose must be disconected, and can cause fuel to spill on the motor. Plus it is considered refueling

waytooslow
01-17-2008, 10:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Walter Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In an effort to simplify things.

1) Transponders will be mounted on the left front fork leg between the triple clamps; the # and light must be visible without removing any bodywork.

Do not mount it on the fairing stay. </div></div>

this will not work for me, as the ignition controller is located in that position on my motard. it would act as a steering lock. Honda 150 and 230 both have this issue.

waytooslow
01-17-2008, 10:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Walter Walker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In an effort to simplify things.

1) Transponders will be mounted on the left front fork leg between the triple clamps; the # and light must be visible without removing any bodywork.

Do not mount it on the fairing stay. </div></div>

this will not work for me, as the ignition controller is located in that position on my motard. it would act as a steering lock. Honda 150 and 230 both have this issue.