View Full Version : A storm comming WSBK

David Hirsch
07-10-2003, 10:08 PM
Well we will see what happens when the smoke clears. It appears that the governing body of WSBK tried to pull a fast one and it did not work. It appears that as of next year none of the Motorcycle Manufacturers are going to compete in WSBK.

07-10-2003, 10:16 PM
Yup. It do look like they shot they se'vs in the feet onest agin. :rolleyes:
I'm surprised the MSMA actually likes intake restrictors; they've never worked before. Seems all the MSMA (read Japanese) members have not done well with the current rules structure, and it seems to drive up the cost of competition. Both things that MSMA are b-witchin' about in their press releases. Don't seem like too much trouble to take them pesky 'strictors off! I think the Japanese made a decision several years ago that one world championship was enough. I gotta admit, tho, the spec tire thing does sound really lame. Kinda goes in the wrong direction. I bet they think they're gonna get big bucks from some low level tire co. to become the spec tire.
Kinda backfired on ya, huh sparky?

David Hirsch
07-10-2003, 10:29 PM
All of the members of the MSMA are not Japanese. If I recall correctly Aprilia and Ducati are both members.

07-10-2003, 10:58 PM
I stand corrected.

07-11-2003, 02:27 AM
I am not for spec tires, but I would actually be interested in seeing the manufacturers pull out. I think this would help even the playing field. Then everyone gets the same parts from the factories and the team's are funded like many of the teams in Nascar. There may be some Nascar teams that get special parts, but the gap is not as great as it is in motorcycle racing. I think the system of having factory teams is holding back motorcycle racing from growing, not helping it. I think if you started to see Coca-Cola Yamaha and Mc Donald's Honda, you could end up seeing alot more teams on equally competitive equipment. I think it would also make for a better situation for club racers being able to move on to the AMA level of racing and be competitive. Why would anyone want to fund a Superbike Team Privately? Only because you just won the Powerball and have to spend your money on something. A Privateer team will never beat Yoshimura Suzuki, unless you have a sitituation like Road America where rain can play a factor.

I think there are more than just a few riders who are privateer's that could put it on the factory riders, but the factory guys just have the better equipment.

Anyway this is just my rant of what I think could make motorcycle racing not only more interesting, but see a larger number of funded teams compete and see the sport grow.

Jason Taylor
www.racersupply.com (http://www.racersupply.com)

07-11-2003, 03:04 AM

m novak
07-11-2003, 08:14 AM
I really don't understand the deal...this is about tires????

anyone have the uneducated using small words version?? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Rich Desmond
07-11-2003, 08:28 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Mark Novak:
I really don't understand the deal...this is about tires????

anyone have the uneducated using small words version?? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif </div></div>I think the bigger issue is the proposed move away from a restrictor plate based formula and towards something more like the AMA's rules, in spite of assurances from the FIM that the rules would remain stable.

07-11-2003, 08:41 AM
what I see between the lines is.

1. Spec tires mean the tire co. will not give special rubber to fac. race teams.
2. Rules require making a bike closer to street bike specs. this will result in sellin a more expensive street bike and that means less sales.

Number one means it costs more to win.
Number two means less sales less profit.

that means factories are against it.

Bryan Norton
07-11-2003, 08:50 AM
Spec tires is interesting, provided all vendors get to participate. A single brand strategy is plain dumb. Even if they all had to use identical rubber compounds, at least let them uise unique tread patterns and place their name on the side of the tires.

Trying to force them to make a racebike similar to a streetbike will not work. Just like Harley had their bike 'street legal' in a country and was able to produce the minimum for homologation (sp) there will always be a way around it.

Like Glenn said, they'll just make a true race replica available in whatever the minimum quantity required.

Dave - Since I really don't know exactly what they mean by spec tires, can you fill me in? Are they talking about one brand, one compound, one tread, or what?

07-11-2003, 10:21 AM
I say give 'em all Cheng Shins and let 'em run!

Actually, when you think about spec tire rules...It seems it might could be better used as a way to control engine costs and speeds. Better in my opinion than a intake restrictor ala NASCAR.

Think about it for a moment (open minds please) If NASCAR would use a smaller, harder compound tire at it's super speedways, drivers would have to slow down and drive the corners, giving chassis and set up expertice the advantage rather than a restrictor plate engine program (read $$)

Now, if you could run a spec tire, whether same brand or compound, whatever, in WSB then the rider/chassis combo would determine the level of competition. The privateer bikes (who are noticably under powered) would have a better shot since they simply can't afford the engine programs that the factory teams enjoy. (the factory horse power would almost be a disadvantage trying to get the spec tire hooked up)

And to further equalize it there would be no teams on special manufacturer rubber who have an advantage.

Now get the manufacturers agree to race without those crutches and advantages might be another story!

m novak
07-11-2003, 11:15 AM
This is why I like the Boxer cup so much...it is a best racer wins scenario. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

07-11-2003, 12:36 PM
Of those 6 manufacturers aren't there only two competing in WSBK anyway (Ducati & Suzuki)? It sounds like to me that they are upset that FIM wants to do away with restrictors, which I think is what is keeping Suzuki from winning. I could see Ducati being upset about this. Of course spec tires are a whole nother issue.

David Hirsch
07-11-2003, 12:42 PM
I will try to address some of the questions and thoughts but will probably miss some.
Bryan, a spec tire rule would be one tire and one brand.
As far as one tire with different names on it, what is the point and who will build them?
A tire built for a WSBK would put most people on their heads as they would never get the tire to start working. So who do you build the Spec tire for? Do you build it for the guys up front or do you build it for the guys in the back, granted they are all fast but where do you draw the line.
If they want an IROC type series, fine. Everyone on the same machine and tires.

NASCAR, it is basicly a spec tire series with tires that everyone can make work because the cars all make enough power to get the tires to work. All of the teams in NASCAR are big money. When do you think the last time was that technology from a NASCAR made it into your car? A NASCAR has about as much to do with your car as a F22 has to do with a Piper Cub. On the other hand technology from the GPs and WSBK finds its way to the bikes we ride and the tires we use every year. I could not tell you what modle car Ford, Chevey or Dodge is rurring in NASCAR but I would be willing to bet money that there is not one part from any of those modles on that NASCAR.
NASCAR is great entertainment if you like watching cars go in circles.
Hooser Tire tried to get into NASCAR and could not sustaine their effort.
The Boxer Cup is the IROC formula for motorcycles, Harley had it with the 883 series as well. They were not going very fast but the racing was close.
OK start throwing rocks and I will dodge them the best I can.

Stuart Fulton
07-11-2003, 01:50 PM
You mean to tell me that they aren't really racing Ford Taurus's in NASCAR? But the painted on headlights look so authentic. Ah, next your going to say that wrestling isn't real. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

I think the manufacturers are getting tired of WSK changing the rules without discussing it with them and doing it late in the game and their press release is just them threatening to take their marbles and go home. I would imagine all of this will get worked out by the end of the year. It was just like when they threatened to make everyone run treaded tires. I think the AMA (and I think the BSB also) rules with some small tweaks would be the best route to go for all of the superbike series.

Joseph Browning
07-11-2003, 08:11 PM
Mr. Tsubouchi is centrally focused on one thing - the media. He alludes to them 4 times and says the word "media" 3 times in his statement. He's looking to gain a foothold with "the media" (who the hell is the media, anyway?) and does so at the expense to the credibility of the MSMA.

07-11-2003, 08:29 PM
msma doesn't need any other credibility it is the 6 most active factory racing teams plus their suport teams. The media is who sells bikes so he is playing to them big time.

I will aggree it makes them look like prostitutes.

ps I would have said whores but this is a pg board.