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Christopher Corder
03-24-2005, 07:38 PM
Can someone please explain what cold tearing on a tire is? I know what it looks like, my tire on Sunday had it pretty bad. I just dont understand what it is. Thanks.

Christopher Corder
03-24-2005, 07:38 PM
Can someone please explain what cold tearing on a tire is? I know what it looks like, my tire on Sunday had it pretty bad. I just dont understand what it is. Thanks.

David Hirsch
03-24-2005, 08:32 PM
What you get at MSR is not really cold tear even though it look similar. What we get at MSR is a function of the tire rubber or compounds ability to hold it self together. The rubber is basicly ripped apart due to the long off camber turns and the polymer binder in the asphalt. The problem starts when a small tear begins, usually caused by a shock bottoming out or packing up causing the shock to stop dead transferring the energy into a spot on the tire about the size of a dime. If you look at a tire with cressonitis the first signs are usually spots around the circumference of the tire spaced at irregular intervals along the same axis of the tire. As you make more laps these spots start to run together and finally the band of shredded rubber all the way around the tire appears. Marcus has been working hard and has stopped alot of it on many bikes along with the use of multi compound tires.
To answer your original question. Cold tear is the term used when a tire is not getting hot enough to form a bond to the asphalt and the rubber is abrading as opposed to wearing away.
David

David Hirsch
03-24-2005, 08:32 PM
What you get at MSR is not really cold tear even though it look similar. What we get at MSR is a function of the tire rubber or compounds ability to hold it self together. The rubber is basicly ripped apart due to the long off camber turns and the polymer binder in the asphalt. The problem starts when a small tear begins, usually caused by a shock bottoming out or packing up causing the shock to stop dead transferring the energy into a spot on the tire about the size of a dime. If you look at a tire with cressonitis the first signs are usually spots around the circumference of the tire spaced at irregular intervals along the same axis of the tire. As you make more laps these spots start to run together and finally the band of shredded rubber all the way around the tire appears. Marcus has been working hard and has stopped alot of it on many bikes along with the use of multi compound tires.
To answer your original question. Cold tear is the term used when a tire is not getting hot enough to form a bond to the asphalt and the rubber is abrading as opposed to wearing away.
David

macdsc
03-24-2005, 08:48 PM
I was pitted next to Ty and noticed his tires showed very little of this. May have been all the tires he changed, or a really good set up suspension. My tires showed very few signs of this and I was on the same set all day, but I dont think sv's are as bad on tires as the larger bikes.

macdsc
03-24-2005, 08:48 PM
I was pitted next to Ty and noticed his tires showed very little of this. May have been all the tires he changed, or a really good set up suspension. My tires showed very few signs of this and I was on the same set all day, but I dont think sv's are as bad on tires as the larger bikes.

CYCLE 1
03-24-2005, 08:52 PM
All of the Michelin tire's we used this weekend
wore perfectly on the endurance bike and sprint bike. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Suspension played a part and running correct pressure. Thanks Dave /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

CYCLE 1
03-24-2005, 08:52 PM
All of the Michelin tire's we used this weekend
wore perfectly on the endurance bike and sprint bike. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Suspension played a part and running correct pressure. Thanks Dave /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

David Hirsch
03-24-2005, 08:54 PM
Dont forget Marcus has spent alot of time on this as well. Between the two of us we are tryin to fight the dreaded cresonitis /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

David Hirsch
03-24-2005, 08:54 PM
Dont forget Marcus has spent alot of time on this as well. Between the two of us we are tryin to fight the dreaded cresonitis /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

macdsc
03-24-2005, 09:54 PM
Did I mention I was Michelin's. I believe Ty was on the record setting Michelin's as well. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

macdsc
03-24-2005, 09:54 PM
Did I mention I was Michelin's. I believe Ty was on the record setting Michelin's as well. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

burner42
03-24-2005, 10:00 PM
My tires were doing this prior to Marcus setting up my suspension. I rode two practice sessions on a brand new tire (michelin pr5) and it was toast! After Marcus tweaked my suspension I rode five races on one set of tires, I think I could probably get a few more practice sessions out of them. It has something to with too stiff of rebound & front ride height???
Myles

burner42
03-24-2005, 10:00 PM
My tires were doing this prior to Marcus setting up my suspension. I rode two practice sessions on a brand new tire (michelin pr5) and it was toast! After Marcus tweaked my suspension I rode five races on one set of tires, I think I could probably get a few more practice sessions out of them. It has something to with too stiff of rebound & front ride height???
Myles

Christopher Corder
03-24-2005, 10:45 PM
Thanks guys. For what it is worth I have had this happen on other tire brands as well. This is no reflection on Michelin as they make the best racing tires in the world.

Christopher Corder
03-24-2005, 10:45 PM
Thanks guys. For what it is worth I have had this happen on other tire brands as well. This is no reflection on Michelin as they make the best racing tires in the world.

Darnell Dorsey
03-25-2005, 07:01 AM
David,
Has the ever happened on a hot day? Or will the heat help hold things together?

Darnell Dorsey
03-25-2005, 07:01 AM
David,
Has the ever happened on a hot day? Or will the heat help hold things together?

John Orchard
03-25-2005, 08:00 AM
Chris, take your bike and tire wear over to Jim Cambora's shop at MSR, (RaceworX). Jim is able to look at the wear and tune most of that wear out of your bike. If you're there on a member day, throw a few bucks Jim's way and ask him to sit at the wall while you ride - come in every few laps and he'll tweak your suspension during the session. You shouldn't be getting that kind of tearing on any of the tire brands during sprints - especially with the track conditions we had last weekend.

John Orchard
03-25-2005, 08:00 AM
Chris, take your bike and tire wear over to Jim Cambora's shop at MSR, (RaceworX). Jim is able to look at the wear and tune most of that wear out of your bike. If you're there on a member day, throw a few bucks Jim's way and ask him to sit at the wall while you ride - come in every few laps and he'll tweak your suspension during the session. You shouldn't be getting that kind of tearing on any of the tire brands during sprints - especially with the track conditions we had last weekend.

Christopher Corder
03-25-2005, 08:08 AM
Thanks so much John, will do.

I am headed to TWS today so tire wear should not be much of a problem there.

Thanks again.

Christopher Corder
03-25-2005, 08:08 AM
Thanks so much John, will do.

I am headed to TWS today so tire wear should not be much of a problem there.

Thanks again.

coyne
03-25-2005, 08:13 AM
Another satisfied Michelin/RPS customer chiming in here... The suspension set-up Marcus did for our bike, combined with good tire advice from David let us get through the 4-hour at MSR with no tire problems what so ever.

coyne
03-25-2005, 08:13 AM
Another satisfied Michelin/RPS customer chiming in here... The suspension set-up Marcus did for our bike, combined with good tire advice from David let us get through the 4-hour at MSR with no tire problems what so ever.

Norm McDonald
03-25-2005, 08:44 AM
We ran practice and the 4 hour on the R6 and our Michelins looked at the end of the day. Thanks David

Norm McDonald
03-25-2005, 08:44 AM
We ran practice and the 4 hour on the R6 and our Michelins looked at the end of the day. Thanks David

Keith Hertell
03-25-2005, 09:01 AM
We ran Practice and the 4 hour on one set of Michelins, too. We could have gone another hour or (maybe) two on them. I think 75% is tire choice.
We shredded a tire last year in 45min, very close to the same setup on suspension.

IMHO!!!

Keith Hertell
03-25-2005, 09:01 AM
We ran Practice and the 4 hour on one set of Michelins, too. We could have gone another hour or (maybe) two on them. I think 75% is tire choice.
We shredded a tire last year in 45min, very close to the same setup on suspension.

IMHO!!!

tjheller
03-25-2005, 09:20 AM
Speaking of tires, I am a semi-FNG and am curious about tire pressure. At the last Ridesmart MSR trackday, Ty Howard said 30 front 28 rear was optimum. Does that apply to DOT tires as well? I put a set of 208A's on my F4i and need to set the pressure. My next trackday is at MSR on the 4th. Thanks for the help.

tjheller
03-25-2005, 09:20 AM
Speaking of tires, I am a semi-FNG and am curious about tire pressure. At the last Ridesmart MSR trackday, Ty Howard said 30 front 28 rear was optimum. Does that apply to DOT tires as well? I put a set of 208A's on my F4i and need to set the pressure. My next trackday is at MSR on the 4th. Thanks for the help.

Christopher Corder
03-25-2005, 10:35 AM
Jason,

It depends on brand and type. Mr. Hirsch had me running 26 rear, 30 front (cold) in my Michelins. These were an H2 front and PowerRace rear on an SV650.

Christopher Corder
03-25-2005, 10:35 AM
Jason,

It depends on brand and type. Mr. Hirsch had me running 26 rear, 30 front (cold) in my Michelins. These were an H2 front and PowerRace rear on an SV650.

David Hirsch
03-25-2005, 11:33 AM
Christopher is correct however he had an H2 on the rear and a Power Race on the front.

David Hirsch
03-25-2005, 11:33 AM
Christopher is correct however he had an H2 on the rear and a Power Race on the front.

Christopher Corder
03-25-2005, 12:20 PM
whoops, your right.

Christopher Corder
03-25-2005, 12:20 PM
whoops, your right.

David Branyon
03-26-2005, 10:01 AM
I think the Cressonitis is strongly favored by
a) high ambient/track temperatures
b) DOT tread patterns.

Dave or other tire folks, could you comment on this? I saw few problems last weekend at Cresson, but at previous years have seen massive problems throughout the pits on various tires, but I don't think I've ever seen the problem on a slick. The pattern of tearing always seems to align with the tread pattern, suggesting some sort of cooperation of the tread pattern in this deal.

Thoughts?

David Branyon
03-26-2005, 10:01 AM
I think the Cressonitis is strongly favored by
a) high ambient/track temperatures
b) DOT tread patterns.

Dave or other tire folks, could you comment on this? I saw few problems last weekend at Cresson, but at previous years have seen massive problems throughout the pits on various tires, but I don't think I've ever seen the problem on a slick. The pattern of tearing always seems to align with the tread pattern, suggesting some sort of cooperation of the tread pattern in this deal.

Thoughts?

Jack Giesecke
03-26-2005, 05:03 PM
We saw these spots on the tires of the WRW Racing NSR after the two hour at Cresson. There's not a whole lot of choice in 12 inch tires for compounds. You wouldn't think, though, that a mini with that much rubber (tire is wide for its height, anyway) would be so subject to this wear. Perhaps it's because the bike is set up for John who might weigh 160 with leathers on and when I get on it, my fat butt overpowers the suspension? Not sure why, but I'm glad we don't have to try to run 6 hours there.

Jack Giesecke
03-26-2005, 05:03 PM
We saw these spots on the tires of the WRW Racing NSR after the two hour at Cresson. There's not a whole lot of choice in 12 inch tires for compounds. You wouldn't think, though, that a mini with that much rubber (tire is wide for its height, anyway) would be so subject to this wear. Perhaps it's because the bike is set up for John who might weigh 160 with leathers on and when I get on it, my fat butt overpowers the suspension? Not sure why, but I'm glad we don't have to try to run 6 hours there.

David Hirsch
03-26-2005, 08:09 PM
David, it happens to slicks as well but due to the rubber flexing less due to the lack of grooves it happens more slowly than on a DOT but theystill do it.
David
P.S. sorry it took so long to answer I was at TWS all day

David Hirsch
03-26-2005, 08:09 PM
David, it happens to slicks as well but due to the rubber flexing less due to the lack of grooves it happens more slowly than on a DOT but theystill do it.
David
P.S. sorry it took so long to answer I was at TWS all day