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derricksmith
05-16-2005, 10:06 PM
1) I made a special trip to registration to ask if our endurance bike and back-up bike could practice. I was told "yes, you may use both bikes." Then I asked, "As long as both bikes are not on the track at the same time?" To a reply of, "Both bikes can practice at the same time." Sometime after that, I hear Walter mention that only one bike is allowed. If the rule changed between the time I asked, and the time practice was over, that is fine. I just wanted to note that we were not trying to "get away" with anything. Can someone advise what the rule will be in the future? Both bikes were registered on the entry form.

2) Before practice, we took both bikes to tech. One did not have our endurance number on it but would have before practice. I think the exact words by someone in the tech area were, "If it doesn't have numbers, it is not 'race ready'." OK. No harm, no foul. As I look across pit road during practice, there goes a well established team with no number and tech stickers. Hmmmm.....What's the deal with that?

3) Yep, more endurance stuff. I also noticed 8 people working on a bike during the race at the same time. They were the only bike on pit road at the time and the CMRA official was not too far away. I thought the rule was 5?? Oh yeah, 3 of them were wearing shorts!

I guess the point of this post is to ask, are all the officials knowledgable of the rules? Obviously they are not enforced equally.

Just wanted to bring this to someone's attention...

derricksmith
05-16-2005, 10:06 PM
1) I made a special trip to registration to ask if our endurance bike and back-up bike could practice. I was told "yes, you may use both bikes." Then I asked, "As long as both bikes are not on the track at the same time?" To a reply of, "Both bikes can practice at the same time." Sometime after that, I hear Walter mention that only one bike is allowed. If the rule changed between the time I asked, and the time practice was over, that is fine. I just wanted to note that we were not trying to "get away" with anything. Can someone advise what the rule will be in the future? Both bikes were registered on the entry form.

2) Before practice, we took both bikes to tech. One did not have our endurance number on it but would have before practice. I think the exact words by someone in the tech area were, "If it doesn't have numbers, it is not 'race ready'." OK. No harm, no foul. As I look across pit road during practice, there goes a well established team with no number and tech stickers. Hmmmm.....What's the deal with that?

3) Yep, more endurance stuff. I also noticed 8 people working on a bike during the race at the same time. They were the only bike on pit road at the time and the CMRA official was not too far away. I thought the rule was 5?? Oh yeah, 3 of them were wearing shorts!

I guess the point of this post is to ask, are all the officials knowledgable of the rules? Obviously they are not enforced equally.

Just wanted to bring this to someone's attention...

Nathaniel Orona
05-16-2005, 10:15 PM
I also noticed that one of the top teams does not have case covers on their new bikes. I looked in the rule book and it specifically says that case covers are required on that particular model bike. I also believe that it says that the rules are there for the safety of all, but I guess winning is more important than safety at times. How the bikes even passed tech is unknown to me. Some rules don't always apply to certain teams (people) I guess. It may be a matter of who you know. Just my 2 cents.

Nathaniel Orona
05-16-2005, 10:15 PM
I also noticed that one of the top teams does not have case covers on their new bikes. I looked in the rule book and it specifically says that case covers are required on that particular model bike. I also believe that it says that the rules are there for the safety of all, but I guess winning is more important than safety at times. How the bikes even passed tech is unknown to me. Some rules don't always apply to certain teams (people) I guess. It may be a matter of who you know. Just my 2 cents.

KELLY DAVIS
05-16-2005, 10:24 PM
How about the TWO bikes that entered the hot pits backwards, meaning that they passed the exit road and turned into the hot pit lane at the start finish line. As far as I know there was no penilty inforced for such a big safty issue. Some of the racers are nearly topped out in first gear or already into second gear before they enter the track. The last thing I would be exspecting would be a bike comeing up pit road the other direction. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

KELLY DAVIS
05-16-2005, 10:24 PM
How about the TWO bikes that entered the hot pits backwards, meaning that they passed the exit road and turned into the hot pit lane at the start finish line. As far as I know there was no penilty inforced for such a big safty issue. Some of the racers are nearly topped out in first gear or already into second gear before they enter the track. The last thing I would be exspecting would be a bike comeing up pit road the other direction. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

Bob Cronin
05-16-2005, 10:53 PM
There were 2 bikes in our class that had rule infractions during the event. One was fixing a crashed bike wearing shorts and having the official standing right there. The other was a pit stop trying to fix something on the bike while the rider sat on the bike. No worries until they started to top off the tank. WTF??? The offical stood there and did nothing until we yelled at him to do something. Not to get them in trouble but to get the guy off the bike for his own good.
At TWS we were told that we were one of few teams doing a pit stop right. Ever see some people doing the fire bottle and not having the pin pulled or pointing it at the tank?
How about the people (guests maybe) simply walking across pit road when a bike is screaming out for the track and act as if they have the right of way. This isn't the Kroger parking lot people, get out of the way of the bike!

Bob Cronin
05-16-2005, 10:53 PM
There were 2 bikes in our class that had rule infractions during the event. One was fixing a crashed bike wearing shorts and having the official standing right there. The other was a pit stop trying to fix something on the bike while the rider sat on the bike. No worries until they started to top off the tank. WTF??? The offical stood there and did nothing until we yelled at him to do something. Not to get them in trouble but to get the guy off the bike for his own good.
At TWS we were told that we were one of few teams doing a pit stop right. Ever see some people doing the fire bottle and not having the pin pulled or pointing it at the tank?
How about the people (guests maybe) simply walking across pit road when a bike is screaming out for the track and act as if they have the right of way. This isn't the Kroger parking lot people, get out of the way of the bike!

roadracerx69
05-16-2005, 10:59 PM
What about the top team not having axle pinch bolts OR brake calipers saftey wired??Which was pointed out to THREE race officials BEFORE the race and nothing was ever done about it??

roadracerx69
05-16-2005, 10:59 PM
What about the top team not having axle pinch bolts OR brake calipers saftey wired??Which was pointed out to THREE race officials BEFORE the race and nothing was ever done about it??

Bob Cronin
05-16-2005, 11:06 PM
How old does the child have to be to be in the pits?

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/hambergler@sbcglobal.net/detail?.dir=/192e&.dnm=932c.jpg&.src=ph

Bob Cronin
05-16-2005, 11:06 PM
How old does the child have to be to be in the pits?

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/hambergler@sbcglobal.net/detail?.dir=/192e&.dnm=932c.jpg&.src=ph

Tom Anderson
05-17-2005, 12:25 AM
Are you guys volunteering to help tech and enforce rules in the pits?

Not trying to start a fight by any means- but I know I don't have any desire to do their jobs. When they enforce the rules nobody likes them. When they don't enforce the rules, nobody likes them.

I'm glad they do those jobs, and I can realize that they can't possibly enforce all the rules with the number of people there.

Our team was reminded at TWS about somethings that we were irresponsible about. We were also sent back to make a change on some safety wiring where we used clips that had too much slack when we teched.

The rules are enforced, but this is our responsibility to police ourselves. WE should be smart enough and responsible enough to enforce the rules on ourselves.

I know after our reminder and re-wire from TWS, we are much more dilligent about the rules and our bike.

I think there are some valid points made above- especially about the kids in the pits. I further think that the rules should be enforced when infractions are brought to official's attention. But I also think that we should be responsible for ourselves, and maybe help out our neighbors on the track by "reminding" them that something isn't wired, their 4 year old should not be here, and you aren't supposed to be over pit wall in shorts.

Tom Anderson
05-17-2005, 12:25 AM
Are you guys volunteering to help tech and enforce rules in the pits?

Not trying to start a fight by any means- but I know I don't have any desire to do their jobs. When they enforce the rules nobody likes them. When they don't enforce the rules, nobody likes them.

I'm glad they do those jobs, and I can realize that they can't possibly enforce all the rules with the number of people there.

Our team was reminded at TWS about somethings that we were irresponsible about. We were also sent back to make a change on some safety wiring where we used clips that had too much slack when we teched.

The rules are enforced, but this is our responsibility to police ourselves. WE should be smart enough and responsible enough to enforce the rules on ourselves.

I know after our reminder and re-wire from TWS, we are much more dilligent about the rules and our bike.

I think there are some valid points made above- especially about the kids in the pits. I further think that the rules should be enforced when infractions are brought to official's attention. But I also think that we should be responsible for ourselves, and maybe help out our neighbors on the track by "reminding" them that something isn't wired, their 4 year old should not be here, and you aren't supposed to be over pit wall in shorts.

jseitz
05-17-2005, 12:26 AM
Hey Bob,

No comment on the thread topic, but your pit shots are excellent.

Thanks,
Jesse Seitz

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bob Cronin:
How old does the child have to be to be in the pits?

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/hambergler@sbcglobal.net/detail?.dir=/192e&.dnm=932c.jpg&.src=ph </div></div>

jseitz
05-17-2005, 12:26 AM
Hey Bob,

No comment on the thread topic, but your pit shots are excellent.

Thanks,
Jesse Seitz

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bob Cronin:
How old does the child have to be to be in the pits?

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/hambergler@sbcglobal.net/detail?.dir=/192e&.dnm=932c.jpg&.src=ph </div></div>

Bob Cronin
05-17-2005, 07:21 AM
The picture came from another thread on this board. I didn't take it.
Tom-
I agree with your post for the most part and our team has been tapped on the shoulder many times over the years about stuff too, but when an official is standing there watching the infraction and still doesn't do anything about it, what message is this sending?

Bob Cronin
05-17-2005, 07:21 AM
The picture came from another thread on this board. I didn't take it.
Tom-
I agree with your post for the most part and our team has been tapped on the shoulder many times over the years about stuff too, but when an official is standing there watching the infraction and still doesn't do anything about it, what message is this sending?

Jason Keene
05-17-2005, 07:34 AM
Seeing things that do not get addressed as well as hearing about them is frustrateing and the bbs is a good outlet to address them....

BUT

Did anyone take the time to try to advise anyone about mistakes they might have been making?

In a polite way not " hey you dumb *** what the heck are you doing..."

I had problems with people standing around and having conversations in hot pit row...

When I come into the pit I'm not flying but I don't need to be TRYING to avoid anyone... they should not be there...

I did make an effort to find these people and they aplogized and it seems they made an effort to not do it again.

Jason Keene
05-17-2005, 07:34 AM
Seeing things that do not get addressed as well as hearing about them is frustrateing and the bbs is a good outlet to address them....

BUT

Did anyone take the time to try to advise anyone about mistakes they might have been making?

In a polite way not " hey you dumb *** what the heck are you doing..."

I had problems with people standing around and having conversations in hot pit row...

When I come into the pit I'm not flying but I don't need to be TRYING to avoid anyone... they should not be there...

I did make an effort to find these people and they aplogized and it seems they made an effort to not do it again.

Tom Anderson
05-17-2005, 07:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bob Cronin:
I agree with your post for the most part and our team has been tapped on the shoulder many times over the years about stuff too, but when an official is standing there watching the infraction and still doesn't do anything about it, what message is this sending? </div></div>Nah, I agree with you Bob. I'm not directing my comments at any one person, but I know I personally have seen infractions and not said anything to the person about it. I think that in hindsight, I should have said something- we all should. Further, the person that we are addressing about the problem should not have a problem about it, and take it for what it is- a safety reminder (in a perfect world... :rolleyes: ).

Tom Anderson
05-17-2005, 07:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bob Cronin:
I agree with your post for the most part and our team has been tapped on the shoulder many times over the years about stuff too, but when an official is standing there watching the infraction and still doesn't do anything about it, what message is this sending? </div></div>Nah, I agree with you Bob. I'm not directing my comments at any one person, but I know I personally have seen infractions and not said anything to the person about it. I think that in hindsight, I should have said something- we all should. Further, the person that we are addressing about the problem should not have a problem about it, and take it for what it is- a safety reminder (in a perfect world... :rolleyes: ).

Nathaniel Orona
05-17-2005, 08:29 AM
You like the picture of our pit stop Bob! My child is NOT anywhere near the bike or traffic. In addition, we asked a race official if there was anything wrong with him being in our pits and the answer was "no." He stayed in the grass the whole time and knows better than to get in the way of anyone or any bike. Be careful Bob! A child in the pits, with permission, is totally different than teams running their bikes without all the proper safety requirements. The team without all the safety requirements puts EVERYONE on the track at risk. All the rules do not apply to everyone as you all should know by now.

Nathaniel Orona
05-17-2005, 08:29 AM
You like the picture of our pit stop Bob! My child is NOT anywhere near the bike or traffic. In addition, we asked a race official if there was anything wrong with him being in our pits and the answer was "no." He stayed in the grass the whole time and knows better than to get in the way of anyone or any bike. Be careful Bob! A child in the pits, with permission, is totally different than teams running their bikes without all the proper safety requirements. The team without all the safety requirements puts EVERYONE on the track at risk. All the rules do not apply to everyone as you all should know by now.

Walter Walker
05-17-2005, 08:32 AM
Let me explain this one more time. Each endurance team is allowed one practice bike PLUS!!!! their endurance bike. That practice bike must have the teams # on it and be declared on the entry form. As far as pitstop infractions a team gets one warning before being penalized. This could be a time penalty, stop-and-go, or be docked a lap. I have 4 officals to police 59 teams, sometimes we miss a few. Can I sign up any of you guys to work pitroad instead of racing at MSR???

Walter Walker
05-17-2005, 08:32 AM
Let me explain this one more time. Each endurance team is allowed one practice bike PLUS!!!! their endurance bike. That practice bike must have the teams # on it and be declared on the entry form. As far as pitstop infractions a team gets one warning before being penalized. This could be a time penalty, stop-and-go, or be docked a lap. I have 4 officals to police 59 teams, sometimes we miss a few. Can I sign up any of you guys to work pitroad instead of racing at MSR???

Nathaniel Orona
05-17-2005, 08:41 AM
But how does a bike pass tech without case covers? Every bike is looked at individually. And I know case covers are available for that bike.

Nathaniel Orona
05-17-2005, 08:41 AM
But how does a bike pass tech without case covers? Every bike is looked at individually. And I know case covers are available for that bike.

Jason Keene
05-17-2005, 08:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bob Cronin:
How old does the child have to be to be in the pits?
</div></div>I admit I had to check... Section 3.1 Children under the age of 10 must be accompanied by an adult.

Jason Keene
05-17-2005, 08:55 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Bob Cronin:
How old does the child have to be to be in the pits?
</div></div>I admit I had to check... Section 3.1 Children under the age of 10 must be accompanied by an adult.

Nathaniel Orona
05-17-2005, 09:31 AM
Thanks for checking on that Jason. My girlfriend sat there the entire 6 hours watching him and even took him with her when she left the pits for anything. Topic about child in pit should be closed, unless Bob has anything else to add!

Nathaniel Orona
05-17-2005, 09:31 AM
Thanks for checking on that Jason. My girlfriend sat there the entire 6 hours watching him and even took him with her when she left the pits for anything. Topic about child in pit should be closed, unless Bob has anything else to add!

JesseJohnson
05-17-2005, 09:39 AM
Guys, when you notice this stuff at the track, point it out at the track! Officials can't do anything about it now. Complaining like this on the message board is unconstructive. All you'll do is make the people who volunteer their time to run the club feel bitter towards you. As another note, a lot of these things you guys complain about could be handled with a friendly heads up to the other team.

Jess

JesseJohnson
05-17-2005, 09:39 AM
Guys, when you notice this stuff at the track, point it out at the track! Officials can't do anything about it now. Complaining like this on the message board is unconstructive. All you'll do is make the people who volunteer their time to run the club feel bitter towards you. As another note, a lot of these things you guys complain about could be handled with a friendly heads up to the other team.

Jess

Nathaniel Orona
05-17-2005, 09:45 AM
There are a lot of teams to watch over at a race and everything will not be caught, but tech is the one place where bikes, helmets, and fire exstinguishers are looked at individually. But would someone please let me know how a bike passes tech without the proper case covers.

Nathaniel Orona
05-17-2005, 09:45 AM
There are a lot of teams to watch over at a race and everything will not be caught, but tech is the one place where bikes, helmets, and fire exstinguishers are looked at individually. But would someone please let me know how a bike passes tech without the proper case covers.

Nancy Selleck
05-17-2005, 09:56 AM
Jason didn't go quite far enough when quoting the rulebook. The complete rule is:

"Children under the age of 10 must be attended to at all times by a responsible adult. Children under 16, unless a licensed participant, are prohibited from the hot-pit lane at all times."

Also, I'm not disputing any of the tech problems listed in the thread, because I'm not involved with that, but I do have an issue with folks complaining about race officials not getting on someone who isn't following the rules.

Our race officials are basically volunteering their time so y'all can go out there and race. These folks are supposed to be doing a specific job, not running around trying to babysit everything that goes on at the track. Everyone has a rulebook, everyone is required to read and know the rules and everyone is required to abide by them. Race officials don't have time to run around after everyone to make sure that it happens.

For example when someone asks you to stop riding a pit bike after 10 p.m., then stop riding a pit bike after 10 p.m. Don't give them a hard time, just stop riding the bike and don't do it again.

CMRA officials can't do it all alone...everyone has to help.

Nancy Selleck
05-17-2005, 09:56 AM
Jason didn't go quite far enough when quoting the rulebook. The complete rule is:

"Children under the age of 10 must be attended to at all times by a responsible adult. Children under 16, unless a licensed participant, are prohibited from the hot-pit lane at all times."

Also, I'm not disputing any of the tech problems listed in the thread, because I'm not involved with that, but I do have an issue with folks complaining about race officials not getting on someone who isn't following the rules.

Our race officials are basically volunteering their time so y'all can go out there and race. These folks are supposed to be doing a specific job, not running around trying to babysit everything that goes on at the track. Everyone has a rulebook, everyone is required to read and know the rules and everyone is required to abide by them. Race officials don't have time to run around after everyone to make sure that it happens.

For example when someone asks you to stop riding a pit bike after 10 p.m., then stop riding a pit bike after 10 p.m. Don't give them a hard time, just stop riding the bike and don't do it again.

CMRA officials can't do it all alone...everyone has to help.

jseitz
05-17-2005, 10:05 AM
Nathaniel,

I now see your potential as a future volunteer in tech.

I think it's now obvious to everyone the lack of case covers got missed.

Can anyone tell me how long ago it was that voicing concerns in person, at the time of the problem, went out of style?

Regards,
Jesse Seitz


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Nathaniel Orona:
There are a lot of teams to watch over at a race and everything will not be caught, but tech is the one place where bikes, helmets, and fire exstinguishers are looked at individually. But would someone please let me know how a bike passes tech without the proper case covers. </div></div>

jseitz
05-17-2005, 10:05 AM
Nathaniel,

I now see your potential as a future volunteer in tech.

I think it's now obvious to everyone the lack of case covers got missed.

Can anyone tell me how long ago it was that voicing concerns in person, at the time of the problem, went out of style?

Regards,
Jesse Seitz


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Nathaniel Orona:
There are a lot of teams to watch over at a race and everything will not be caught, but tech is the one place where bikes, helmets, and fire exstinguishers are looked at individually. But would someone please let me know how a bike passes tech without the proper case covers. </div></div>

R Eads
05-17-2005, 10:11 AM
Nathaniel, the section in the rule book reads as follows:

Children under the age of 10 must be attended to at all time by a responsible adult. Children under 16, unless a licensed participant, are PROHIBITED from the hot-pit lane at all times.


At TWS my wife was asked to take our kids back into the pit area and off hot pit road, she did rgiht away, they were only there waiting on me to come in from practice to kiss me and wish me luck, I did not see them for the whole 8 hr race. We were in the wrong, and the officals did their job and we have no complaints,

Most everytime our kids come with us, we here (why can't we do that, those kids are) and all I can tell them is that its agianst the rules and we are going to do our best to follow them, yes we do sometimes have infractions.

Feel free to look me up. I will buy you a coke.

Richard Eads
#93 Sprint
#93 Mini Endurance
#17 Big Bike Endurance

R Eads
05-17-2005, 10:11 AM
Nathaniel, the section in the rule book reads as follows:

Children under the age of 10 must be attended to at all time by a responsible adult. Children under 16, unless a licensed participant, are PROHIBITED from the hot-pit lane at all times.


At TWS my wife was asked to take our kids back into the pit area and off hot pit road, she did rgiht away, they were only there waiting on me to come in from practice to kiss me and wish me luck, I did not see them for the whole 8 hr race. We were in the wrong, and the officals did their job and we have no complaints,

Most everytime our kids come with us, we here (why can't we do that, those kids are) and all I can tell them is that its agianst the rules and we are going to do our best to follow them, yes we do sometimes have infractions.

Feel free to look me up. I will buy you a coke.

Richard Eads
#93 Sprint
#93 Mini Endurance
#17 Big Bike Endurance

jseitz
05-17-2005, 10:20 AM
Richard,

Is this a subtle reference to some old school Richard Pryor talking about Bill Cosby?

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Jesse

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Richard Eads:

Feel free to look me up. I will buy you a coke.
</div></div>

jseitz
05-17-2005, 10:20 AM
Richard,

Is this a subtle reference to some old school Richard Pryor talking about Bill Cosby?

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Jesse

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Richard Eads:

Feel free to look me up. I will buy you a coke.
</div></div>

Jonathan Wright
05-17-2005, 10:24 AM
I know I'm not perfect about following every rule and I also talk to folks (nicely!) who are not following them as well.

I will also state that some "Joe Schmo" like myself would feel a bit intimidated talking to a top team about rule infractions...it's tough to do that and not appear to have sour grapes or a 'ticked off loser' appearance.

But I do realize that the officals try their best and they can't see everything.

Jonathan Wright
05-17-2005, 10:24 AM
I know I'm not perfect about following every rule and I also talk to folks (nicely!) who are not following them as well.

I will also state that some "Joe Schmo" like myself would feel a bit intimidated talking to a top team about rule infractions...it's tough to do that and not appear to have sour grapes or a 'ticked off loser' appearance.

But I do realize that the officals try their best and they can't see everything.

Winn Racing
05-17-2005, 10:24 AM
How?
Where?
and When?
can I get a new rule book?

Winn Racing
05-17-2005, 10:24 AM
How?
Where?
and When?
can I get a new rule book?

Bryan Norton
05-17-2005, 10:31 AM
I had my kid kicked out of the hot pit area at Oak Hill because of his age (during a mini endurance race).
He is 12 and was actually helping us in pits. If I paid $100 for a CMRA racer license he could help even if he didn't race (I could add him to the team)
I don't always agree with the rules, and heck I should know what they are, but they are there for safety. I realized this and he left the pit area.

Children should not be anywhere in the hot pit area during a big bike race. 'my kid knows better' is a lame excuse. Then do we allow only children who 'know better'?

The grids are crowded, the scene is chaotic, the temperature is hot. I would say Mini endurance should allow them, but big bike should not. I would also think that TWS would have an allowance since there is wall separating the actual pit road.

Shorts are not allowed for safety reasons. I know it's hot, but throw on some jogging pants or something when servicing the bike.

Bryan Norton
05-17-2005, 10:31 AM
I had my kid kicked out of the hot pit area at Oak Hill because of his age (during a mini endurance race).
He is 12 and was actually helping us in pits. If I paid $100 for a CMRA racer license he could help even if he didn't race (I could add him to the team)
I don't always agree with the rules, and heck I should know what they are, but they are there for safety. I realized this and he left the pit area.

Children should not be anywhere in the hot pit area during a big bike race. 'my kid knows better' is a lame excuse. Then do we allow only children who 'know better'?

The grids are crowded, the scene is chaotic, the temperature is hot. I would say Mini endurance should allow them, but big bike should not. I would also think that TWS would have an allowance since there is wall separating the actual pit road.

Shorts are not allowed for safety reasons. I know it's hot, but throw on some jogging pants or something when servicing the bike.

TX_03_RC51
05-17-2005, 10:41 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Mike Rosas:
How?
Where?
and When?
can I get a new rule book? </div></div>Download it.
here: http://www.cmraracing.com/pdf/2005/Rules/CMRA%202005%20Rule%20Book%20-%20Online%201-20-05.pdf .
When? Well, right now (I was going to reserve this space for a smart-a** comment, but I will refrain, and give you the benefit of the doubt).

TX_03_RC51
05-17-2005, 10:41 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Mike Rosas:
How?
Where?
and When?
can I get a new rule book? </div></div>Download it.
here: http://www.cmraracing.com/pdf/2005/Rules/CMRA%202005%20Rule%20Book%20-%20Online%201-20-05.pdf .
When? Well, right now (I was going to reserve this space for a smart-a** comment, but I will refrain, and give you the benefit of the doubt).

David Branyon
05-17-2005, 10:42 AM
Rule book is available on the forms page.
http://www.cmraracing.com/pdf/2005/Rules/CMRA%202005%20Rule%20Book%20-%20Online%201-20-05.pdf

David Branyon
05-17-2005, 10:42 AM
Rule book is available on the forms page.
http://www.cmraracing.com/pdf/2005/Rules/CMRA%202005%20Rule%20Book%20-%20Online%201-20-05.pdf

Kevin
05-17-2005, 11:22 AM
I think, as Nancy pointed out, that all of the issues being discussed here are covered in the rule book. I also know that a lot of people have never read the book. As far as tech is concerned,
we are usually very busy on Fridays and Saturdays and I am sure things get missed. A lot less of this would happen if riders would not stand and argue about things pointed out to them as this just takes up everyone's time. Also, if the proper paper work (entry form, contingency forms) helmet and if you are endurancing you teams fire ex. were brought to tech with the bike
as they are supposed to be, then the entire tech procedure would be quicker and smoother for all of us.

Kevin
05-17-2005, 11:22 AM
I think, as Nancy pointed out, that all of the issues being discussed here are covered in the rule book. I also know that a lot of people have never read the book. As far as tech is concerned,
we are usually very busy on Fridays and Saturdays and I am sure things get missed. A lot less of this would happen if riders would not stand and argue about things pointed out to them as this just takes up everyone's time. Also, if the proper paper work (entry form, contingency forms) helmet and if you are endurancing you teams fire ex. were brought to tech with the bike
as they are supposed to be, then the entire tech procedure would be quicker and smoother for all of us.

Bob Cronin
05-17-2005, 12:03 PM
Nate-
I can find more to say if you really want it. The thread was about rules inforced and not 'how can insult Nate'. Didn't know by the picture that it was your pits, didn't care...wasn't the point I was trying to make. Either way, you were wrong, remove the child.
Or would you still want to ask about the case covers again?

Bob Cronin
05-17-2005, 12:03 PM
Nate-
I can find more to say if you really want it. The thread was about rules inforced and not 'how can insult Nate'. Didn't know by the picture that it was your pits, didn't care...wasn't the point I was trying to make. Either way, you were wrong, remove the child.
Or would you still want to ask about the case covers again?

Nathaniel Orona
05-17-2005, 12:24 PM
Okay Bob all mighty, did you read the part where I said we asked a race official if him being where he was was a problem with his mother watching him and the response was "no?" Whether that varies from track to track I have no idea. We asked and that was the response. I have no control over what you may be told. So your saying " Either way, you were wrong, remove the child " is null. Last I checked you weren't a race official and a race official told us "it was fine." Find whatever you want to say Bob. I asked someone that counted, if they told me incorrectly that is not on me. Could be the same as the case covers deal.

Nathaniel Orona
05-17-2005, 12:24 PM
Okay Bob all mighty, did you read the part where I said we asked a race official if him being where he was was a problem with his mother watching him and the response was "no?" Whether that varies from track to track I have no idea. We asked and that was the response. I have no control over what you may be told. So your saying " Either way, you were wrong, remove the child " is null. Last I checked you weren't a race official and a race official told us "it was fine." Find whatever you want to say Bob. I asked someone that counted, if they told me incorrectly that is not on me. Could be the same as the case covers deal.

tinman
05-17-2005, 12:58 PM
Bob, I was the official you hollered at during the refuel. The team in question had been tinkering on the bike then begin to fuel, no shorts, fire extinguisher pin pulled, my bad I missed one thing. Now its my turn. Do you know why we had to stop everyone going out to practice? Because people cant seem to remember they have to have their helmets teched. Every race weekend its the same crap. We have to stop everyone going out for practice and then make a walk thru the pits after that. We ask nicely for someone to tech their helmet and they tell us to go get them a sticker. Not my responsibility, it is the riders no matter who they are. Why do we have to walk the pits and check extinguishers? Cause once again people cant seem to remember that they have to do this every race weekend. And is everyone cordial when you tell them they need to tech their helmet or extinguisher? NO!! Did you have to holler at me? no, you could have simply stated hey their rider is on the bike. I had just got off of manual scoring for an hour so you can go play out there. Anytime you feel like it you can put on one of these shirts and help out and see how much fun it is so others can go have a good time. Try to manually score 59 teams for 3 hours. If you have a problem bring it up then. dont wait till you are at home. And my favorite reply all weekend? When someone was heading out to practice and we stopped him to tell him he needed his helmet teched (yes, we were nice and stickered people up right there) he hollers where the **** do I have to go to get that done? And last but not least thanks to all the people who do appreciate the work others do so all can have a fun weekend.

tinman
05-17-2005, 12:58 PM
Bob, I was the official you hollered at during the refuel. The team in question had been tinkering on the bike then begin to fuel, no shorts, fire extinguisher pin pulled, my bad I missed one thing. Now its my turn. Do you know why we had to stop everyone going out to practice? Because people cant seem to remember they have to have their helmets teched. Every race weekend its the same crap. We have to stop everyone going out for practice and then make a walk thru the pits after that. We ask nicely for someone to tech their helmet and they tell us to go get them a sticker. Not my responsibility, it is the riders no matter who they are. Why do we have to walk the pits and check extinguishers? Cause once again people cant seem to remember that they have to do this every race weekend. And is everyone cordial when you tell them they need to tech their helmet or extinguisher? NO!! Did you have to holler at me? no, you could have simply stated hey their rider is on the bike. I had just got off of manual scoring for an hour so you can go play out there. Anytime you feel like it you can put on one of these shirts and help out and see how much fun it is so others can go have a good time. Try to manually score 59 teams for 3 hours. If you have a problem bring it up then. dont wait till you are at home. And my favorite reply all weekend? When someone was heading out to practice and we stopped him to tell him he needed his helmet teched (yes, we were nice and stickered people up right there) he hollers where the **** do I have to go to get that done? And last but not least thanks to all the people who do appreciate the work others do so all can have a fun weekend.

David Branyon
05-17-2005, 01:02 PM
I understand that officials can't be everywhere all the time. But putting *all* of these items into the "individuals need to self-police more" bucket doesn't seem to be a responsible response. I think there's room for improvement in the consistency of rule enforcement. Let's look at it.

David Branyon
05-17-2005, 01:02 PM
I understand that officials can't be everywhere all the time. But putting *all* of these items into the "individuals need to self-police more" bucket doesn't seem to be a responsible response. I think there's room for improvement in the consistency of rule enforcement. Let's look at it.

R Eads
05-17-2005, 01:04 PM
Jesse, no reference to Pryor or Cosby. I was still young when Pryor was in his prime.

Basically just trying not to come off as a smart-azz.

Richard Eads
#93 Sprint
#93 Mini Endurance
#17 Big Bike Endurance

R Eads
05-17-2005, 01:04 PM
Jesse, no reference to Pryor or Cosby. I was still young when Pryor was in his prime.

Basically just trying not to come off as a smart-azz.

Richard Eads
#93 Sprint
#93 Mini Endurance
#17 Big Bike Endurance

Nancy Selleck
05-17-2005, 01:49 PM
David, our staff is so worn out by the end of the weekend we can't even think straight. Most of us spend the entire time running around trying to do our jobs plus policing all the infractions going on.

I've witnessed riders telling staff members "screw you" when requested to abide by the rules. I've had it done to me. Then what? Staff members are supposed to squeeze something else into their day by trying to find Walter so he can stop what he's doing so he can fine or suspend them?

Why is it a problem expecting adults to help police themselves? Just because there isn't a cop sitting at every traffic light, doesn't mean that it's okay to run it.

You have no idea.

Nancy Selleck
05-17-2005, 01:49 PM
David, our staff is so worn out by the end of the weekend we can't even think straight. Most of us spend the entire time running around trying to do our jobs plus policing all the infractions going on.

I've witnessed riders telling staff members "screw you" when requested to abide by the rules. I've had it done to me. Then what? Staff members are supposed to squeeze something else into their day by trying to find Walter so he can stop what he's doing so he can fine or suspend them?

Why is it a problem expecting adults to help police themselves? Just because there isn't a cop sitting at every traffic light, doesn't mean that it's okay to run it.

You have no idea.

Igal
05-17-2005, 02:08 PM
i am wondering how the street gsxr1000 got onto the track friday during the *CMRA* trackday (not the hallett lapping day, LSTD, or Ridesmart trackday) only to lose a drain plug (was it safety wired?) and drop oil allover the track.

maybe im stirring the pot here ....

Igal
05-17-2005, 02:08 PM
i am wondering how the street gsxr1000 got onto the track friday during the *CMRA* trackday (not the hallett lapping day, LSTD, or Ridesmart trackday) only to lose a drain plug (was it safety wired?) and drop oil allover the track.

maybe im stirring the pot here ....

Nancy Selleck
05-17-2005, 02:12 PM
It was a rider school student, not a practice day participant.

That issue has already been handled internally and it won't be happening again.

Nancy Selleck
05-17-2005, 02:12 PM
It was a rider school student, not a practice day participant.

That issue has already been handled internally and it won't be happening again.

burner42
05-17-2005, 02:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Igal Askeroglu:
i am wondering how the street gsxr1000 got onto the track friday during the *CMRA* trackday (not the hallett lapping day, LSTD, or Ridesmart trackday) only to lose a drain plug (was it safety wired?) and drop oil allover the track.

maybe im stirring the pot here .... </div></div>Talk about irony, the only bike on the track without it's oil plug safety wired, and it dumps oil???

burner42
05-17-2005, 02:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Igal Askeroglu:
i am wondering how the street gsxr1000 got onto the track friday during the *CMRA* trackday (not the hallett lapping day, LSTD, or Ridesmart trackday) only to lose a drain plug (was it safety wired?) and drop oil allover the track.

maybe im stirring the pot here .... </div></div>Talk about irony, the only bike on the track without it's oil plug safety wired, and it dumps oil???

Travis Pierce
05-17-2005, 02:33 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Nathaniel Orona:
Okay Bob all mighty, did you read the part where I said we asked a race official if him being where he was was a problem with his mother watching him and the response was "no?" Whether that varies from track to track I have no idea. We asked and that was the response. I have no control over what you may be told. So your saying " Either way, you were wrong, remove the child " is null. Last I checked you weren't a race official and a race official told us "it was fine." Find whatever you want to say Bob. I asked someone that counted, if they told me incorrectly that is not on me. Could be the same as the case covers deal. </div></div>Hey Nate, this just goes to show that when you bring something up to somebody, they get pissed about it, so in actually, it is hard to tell people they are doing wrong. And from the looks of the pic, not to point fingers or jabs at anybody I don't see anybody around your son. Also, I can't say how many times I have said something to my daughter when she was that age only to see her try to do it the minute my head was turned. Kids are a great thing, but they are not adults and don't think the way we do, when you scold them sometimes they don't listen and still try to do their own thing. I have seen it too many times when people tell their kids to stay and don't move only to find out later that they are walking away or....well, you get the point.
I know Bob very well and I don't think he was singling you out, but you took it personal, maybe next time try to be more diplomatic about it.
Just like Jason said earlier, maybe something should have been said then, but just from the posts, people get upset even after the fact. Just imagine how it could have been if you went up to somebody during the race or right before. Probably an argument.

Travis Pierce
05-17-2005, 02:33 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Nathaniel Orona:
Okay Bob all mighty, did you read the part where I said we asked a race official if him being where he was was a problem with his mother watching him and the response was "no?" Whether that varies from track to track I have no idea. We asked and that was the response. I have no control over what you may be told. So your saying " Either way, you were wrong, remove the child " is null. Last I checked you weren't a race official and a race official told us "it was fine." Find whatever you want to say Bob. I asked someone that counted, if they told me incorrectly that is not on me. Could be the same as the case covers deal. </div></div>Hey Nate, this just goes to show that when you bring something up to somebody, they get pissed about it, so in actually, it is hard to tell people they are doing wrong. And from the looks of the pic, not to point fingers or jabs at anybody I don't see anybody around your son. Also, I can't say how many times I have said something to my daughter when she was that age only to see her try to do it the minute my head was turned. Kids are a great thing, but they are not adults and don't think the way we do, when you scold them sometimes they don't listen and still try to do their own thing. I have seen it too many times when people tell their kids to stay and don't move only to find out later that they are walking away or....well, you get the point.
I know Bob very well and I don't think he was singling you out, but you took it personal, maybe next time try to be more diplomatic about it.
Just like Jason said earlier, maybe something should have been said then, but just from the posts, people get upset even after the fact. Just imagine how it could have been if you went up to somebody during the race or right before. Probably an argument.

Tom Anderson
05-17-2005, 06:48 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by David Branyon:
I understand that officials can't be everywhere all the time. But putting *all* of these items into the "individuals need to self-police more" bucket doesn't seem to be a responsible response. I think there's room for improvement in the consistency of rule enforcement. Let's look at it. </div></div>How about "Let's all be responsible and do what we are SUPPOSED to do." Instead of "Let's look at it."

What do you want? Even higher entry fees? How about triple or quadruple the current fees?

That's what is going to take to get the number of people out at the track to police 59 endurance teams (4 riders, support, family, well-wishers, people walking through, etc). I don't think I have ever seen an official walk through the hot pits without stopping at almost every pit to have a look and remind the team about something they should be doing or shouldn't.

The last thing any athelete wants is for the refferees to call every little infraction. It slows the game, and makes people miserable. But if the team is diciplined, and responsible, the game is smooth and flows. This is true in any sport. You want an official in every pit to make sure that Team XYZ puts a cap on the fuel jug every time, and stands there to make sure you do it? Or would you rather continue to get the benefit of the doubt that the officials give us to be responsible for ourselves and our fellow competitors?

Tom Anderson
05-17-2005, 06:48 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by David Branyon:
I understand that officials can't be everywhere all the time. But putting *all* of these items into the "individuals need to self-police more" bucket doesn't seem to be a responsible response. I think there's room for improvement in the consistency of rule enforcement. Let's look at it. </div></div>How about "Let's all be responsible and do what we are SUPPOSED to do." Instead of "Let's look at it."

What do you want? Even higher entry fees? How about triple or quadruple the current fees?

That's what is going to take to get the number of people out at the track to police 59 endurance teams (4 riders, support, family, well-wishers, people walking through, etc). I don't think I have ever seen an official walk through the hot pits without stopping at almost every pit to have a look and remind the team about something they should be doing or shouldn't.

The last thing any athelete wants is for the refferees to call every little infraction. It slows the game, and makes people miserable. But if the team is diciplined, and responsible, the game is smooth and flows. This is true in any sport. You want an official in every pit to make sure that Team XYZ puts a cap on the fuel jug every time, and stands there to make sure you do it? Or would you rather continue to get the benefit of the doubt that the officials give us to be responsible for ourselves and our fellow competitors?

derricksmith
05-17-2005, 06:56 PM
Whoa! I go to work, come back, and this topic has blown up!! I guess I'll start from the beginning since some of my issues weren't addressed.

I think Nate hit the nail on the head when he said, "some rules don't always apply to certain teams." That is exactly what I was referring to with the no number on the bike reference. I just think it's not right. How can I walk up to a top ten endurance team (me being a novice racer that nobody has seen or heard of) and say, "hey dude, you can't ride that thing. You don't have a number." Oh yeah, that's gonna go over REAL smooth! We, as members, can't "police" but we can all do the right thing when it comes to the rules......that way nobody has too. The point is, my bike couldn't make it though tech, but that one did. This doesn't mean I should be able to go around with no numbers, it means they shouldn't be able to. This also goes hand in hand with the case covers. THERE IS NO EXCUSE for a bike to be on the track without case covers. We may as well run without drain plugs like "mister riders school."

I noted that the team in shorts with 8 guys over the wall was the only team on pit road at the time. Which says to me, the official is not running around having 100 things to do, it says to me, "when you get a top 10, you can do that too." That's just obserd. Those folks know the rules, and should be following them, with or with-out the official.

And how about those bikes going the wrong way? Can the race director honestly say a rider on the race track going in the opposite way would not be a danger? I don't think so. Hot pit is exactly what it is. HOT! This is a huge liability and these folks should have been fined or at least penalized.

Which brings me to my next point. Give more officials the authority to fine and I'd bet this club would straighten up pretty quick. When the consequences are higher, the offenders are lower. See someone in shorts? That'll be 50 bucks. Having to babysit adults is rediculous. The staff should not have to waste their time walking up and down pit road to check helmets and fire-extenguishers. They shouldn't have to stand at pit out and look for these things either. If a rider's helmet is not teched, you can't ride. Dish out a fine, dock a lap. If a fire extenguisher is not teched, dish out a fine, dock a lap. These things wouldn't be happening. The price you pay for stupid.

Kids on hot pit. This one looks touchy but I'm still throwing out my two cents. My wife helps out on our endurance team. (She's our fire extinguisher personel) and of course I ride. We have two kids that come to the track with us. We PAY someone to watch them for us because they are not allowed on pit road. Now I know not everyone can be as fortunate as us to have a travel along baby sitter, but the point is, we go well out of our way to abide by the rules. I'm glad Nate got permission for his child in the pits, but a rule is a rule. "All rules do not apply to everyone"??? They should.

To the staff: I know you guys work hard. I see you running around all weekend and the work you do is appreciated. You are the reason we get to do what we do and we all love it very much. I would just like some consistancy in the tech area. I have no complaints in any other department. Thank you all. The members of this club can clean up the rest of this stuff!

On a side note, I think I broke one rule at Hallet. Someone told me to slow down on my pit bike and I do so accordingly. Thanks to that person.

derricksmith
05-17-2005, 06:56 PM
Whoa! I go to work, come back, and this topic has blown up!! I guess I'll start from the beginning since some of my issues weren't addressed.

I think Nate hit the nail on the head when he said, "some rules don't always apply to certain teams." That is exactly what I was referring to with the no number on the bike reference. I just think it's not right. How can I walk up to a top ten endurance team (me being a novice racer that nobody has seen or heard of) and say, "hey dude, you can't ride that thing. You don't have a number." Oh yeah, that's gonna go over REAL smooth! We, as members, can't "police" but we can all do the right thing when it comes to the rules......that way nobody has too. The point is, my bike couldn't make it though tech, but that one did. This doesn't mean I should be able to go around with no numbers, it means they shouldn't be able to. This also goes hand in hand with the case covers. THERE IS NO EXCUSE for a bike to be on the track without case covers. We may as well run without drain plugs like "mister riders school."

I noted that the team in shorts with 8 guys over the wall was the only team on pit road at the time. Which says to me, the official is not running around having 100 things to do, it says to me, "when you get a top 10, you can do that too." That's just obserd. Those folks know the rules, and should be following them, with or with-out the official.

And how about those bikes going the wrong way? Can the race director honestly say a rider on the race track going in the opposite way would not be a danger? I don't think so. Hot pit is exactly what it is. HOT! This is a huge liability and these folks should have been fined or at least penalized.

Which brings me to my next point. Give more officials the authority to fine and I'd bet this club would straighten up pretty quick. When the consequences are higher, the offenders are lower. See someone in shorts? That'll be 50 bucks. Having to babysit adults is rediculous. The staff should not have to waste their time walking up and down pit road to check helmets and fire-extenguishers. They shouldn't have to stand at pit out and look for these things either. If a rider's helmet is not teched, you can't ride. Dish out a fine, dock a lap. If a fire extenguisher is not teched, dish out a fine, dock a lap. These things wouldn't be happening. The price you pay for stupid.

Kids on hot pit. This one looks touchy but I'm still throwing out my two cents. My wife helps out on our endurance team. (She's our fire extinguisher personel) and of course I ride. We have two kids that come to the track with us. We PAY someone to watch them for us because they are not allowed on pit road. Now I know not everyone can be as fortunate as us to have a travel along baby sitter, but the point is, we go well out of our way to abide by the rules. I'm glad Nate got permission for his child in the pits, but a rule is a rule. "All rules do not apply to everyone"??? They should.

To the staff: I know you guys work hard. I see you running around all weekend and the work you do is appreciated. You are the reason we get to do what we do and we all love it very much. I would just like some consistancy in the tech area. I have no complaints in any other department. Thank you all. The members of this club can clean up the rest of this stuff!

On a side note, I think I broke one rule at Hallet. Someone told me to slow down on my pit bike and I do so accordingly. Thanks to that person.

David Branyon
05-17-2005, 07:06 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Nancy Selleck:
I've witnessed riders telling staff members "screw you" when requested to abide by the rules. I've had it done to me. Then what? Staff members are supposed to squeeze something else into their day by trying to find Walter so he can stop what he's doing so he can fine or suspend them?

Why is it a problem expecting adults to help police themselves? Just because there isn't a cop sitting at every traffic light, doesn't mean that it's okay to run it.

You have no idea. </div></div>Nancy,
I'll start with the thanks that the officials deserve and that they are doing a great job overall and putting out effort above and beyond what we could expect. I'll not ask anyone to work any harder, whatsoever. I'll only ask that when things are noticed, they should be dealt with consistently. That's all. Most of the time, they are already. And I'll do my very best to be a better self-policer in the organization. I promise.

As to the disrespect of a CMRA race official, I propose that we do not allow that at all, period. For sure, cursing of an official should be immediate cause for expulsion from the facility but I'd go further to yelling at an official or disrespect is cause for expulsion. I don't want to hear any whining stories about "Well I was hot from an on-track experience," blah, blah. If I kill someone 'cause I'm mad about something, I'm probably going to the chair. Part of being in society is being able to control your temper. If people don't, throw them out. Now. No discussion. If they don't go, call the police and have them escorted out. Now. None. I wouldn't take an ounce. If we had that policy, and after the first couple of people got thrown out, I bet you wouldn't hear another cross word for quite awhile. But it has to apply to the reigning champion and the yellow shirt as well as every single person in-between. Also has to be stated up front.

How many people do you see yell at or curse a cop? A small percentage, and they generally deal with the dregs of society. Why? Cause everyone knows if you yell at or cuss out a cop, you are in serious trouble. They don't think they *might* be in trouble, they know. We need to make it that way for disrespecting a CMRA official.

Anyone can disagree with an official and have a discussion, in normal speaking tones, over the item of disagreement. When I hear this junk about asking someone to get their helmet tech'd and them cursing back and such, it makes me sick and makes me wonder why y'all (workers) stick around. We don't need that. Might have to be next year to get that harsh with it, to have it in the rulebook and all, but I don't see why we need to be the least bit flexible about that. Maybe they get one warning so they realize they are yelling or whatever, but if they continue yelling for one more sentence, they're out. One cuss word--out.

Anyone know why we shouldn't have such a policy?

David Branyon
05-17-2005, 07:06 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Nancy Selleck:
I've witnessed riders telling staff members "screw you" when requested to abide by the rules. I've had it done to me. Then what? Staff members are supposed to squeeze something else into their day by trying to find Walter so he can stop what he's doing so he can fine or suspend them?

Why is it a problem expecting adults to help police themselves? Just because there isn't a cop sitting at every traffic light, doesn't mean that it's okay to run it.

You have no idea. </div></div>Nancy,
I'll start with the thanks that the officials deserve and that they are doing a great job overall and putting out effort above and beyond what we could expect. I'll not ask anyone to work any harder, whatsoever. I'll only ask that when things are noticed, they should be dealt with consistently. That's all. Most of the time, they are already. And I'll do my very best to be a better self-policer in the organization. I promise.

As to the disrespect of a CMRA race official, I propose that we do not allow that at all, period. For sure, cursing of an official should be immediate cause for expulsion from the facility but I'd go further to yelling at an official or disrespect is cause for expulsion. I don't want to hear any whining stories about "Well I was hot from an on-track experience," blah, blah. If I kill someone 'cause I'm mad about something, I'm probably going to the chair. Part of being in society is being able to control your temper. If people don't, throw them out. Now. No discussion. If they don't go, call the police and have them escorted out. Now. None. I wouldn't take an ounce. If we had that policy, and after the first couple of people got thrown out, I bet you wouldn't hear another cross word for quite awhile. But it has to apply to the reigning champion and the yellow shirt as well as every single person in-between. Also has to be stated up front.

How many people do you see yell at or curse a cop? A small percentage, and they generally deal with the dregs of society. Why? Cause everyone knows if you yell at or cuss out a cop, you are in serious trouble. They don't think they *might* be in trouble, they know. We need to make it that way for disrespecting a CMRA official.

Anyone can disagree with an official and have a discussion, in normal speaking tones, over the item of disagreement. When I hear this junk about asking someone to get their helmet tech'd and them cursing back and such, it makes me sick and makes me wonder why y'all (workers) stick around. We don't need that. Might have to be next year to get that harsh with it, to have it in the rulebook and all, but I don't see why we need to be the least bit flexible about that. Maybe they get one warning so they realize they are yelling or whatever, but if they continue yelling for one more sentence, they're out. One cuss word--out.

Anyone know why we shouldn't have such a policy?

Walter Walker
05-17-2005, 07:36 PM
Derrick, Give me a call. We need to talk.
(254)644-9393 anytime tomorrow.

Walter Walker
05-17-2005, 07:36 PM
Derrick, Give me a call. We need to talk.
(254)644-9393 anytime tomorrow.

Steve McNamara
05-17-2005, 08:09 PM
Holy ****.
This is CLUB RACING.
I have witnessed our staff being *****ed out by a CMRA member for informing the "member" that his helmet needed to be teched. It's OUR job to follow the rules. Our staff bust's their asses and they don't get much respect when they "ask" members to abide by the rules. This makes enforcement somewhat of an issue.
Here's one business solution to this problem. If we raise our fees, add additional staff, and increase pay to put up with the attitudes/rules violations what will it cost us/racers?
How about everyone reading the rule book, then follow the rules. Tech will be much easier without the whining/arguing about a bike being eligible for racing. How about bringing your license or proper paperwork with you to the track. How about no wheelies on pit bikes? Kids in the pits? Pets? etc.......

It is completely rediculous the crap that flows out of mouths/this BBS.
When I think about what this club has!!!
Remember? Club!!!
No wonder people run for the BOD then run away after their term.
Stop griping and follow the rules. Tell/inform Race officials and we'll continue to do our best!!

Steve McNamara
05-17-2005, 08:09 PM
Holy ****.
This is CLUB RACING.
I have witnessed our staff being *****ed out by a CMRA member for informing the "member" that his helmet needed to be teched. It's OUR job to follow the rules. Our staff bust's their asses and they don't get much respect when they "ask" members to abide by the rules. This makes enforcement somewhat of an issue.
Here's one business solution to this problem. If we raise our fees, add additional staff, and increase pay to put up with the attitudes/rules violations what will it cost us/racers?
How about everyone reading the rule book, then follow the rules. Tech will be much easier without the whining/arguing about a bike being eligible for racing. How about bringing your license or proper paperwork with you to the track. How about no wheelies on pit bikes? Kids in the pits? Pets? etc.......

It is completely rediculous the crap that flows out of mouths/this BBS.
When I think about what this club has!!!
Remember? Club!!!
No wonder people run for the BOD then run away after their term.
Stop griping and follow the rules. Tell/inform Race officials and we'll continue to do our best!!

Nancy Selleck
05-17-2005, 08:43 PM
David, I agree with what you're saying. The point that I'm trying to make is that if we fined or suspended or escorted out (or whatever the penalty) everyone who gave the staff a bunch of guff, we'd have no time to put on the races.

If each staff member carried around a small notebook to jot down each person and their rule infraction, the lists would be pretty long. And repeat offenders would take up at least one whole page.

We tell people what to do or not to do. We run to the next problem. We tell that person what to do or not to do. We run to the next problem and do it all over again. We don't have time to put each person in a penalty box until the end of the day when we can deal appropriately with each infraction. We have to do it on the fly and hope that the person in question will listen and not do it again.

Here's one example from this past weekend: I made a huge post here on the message board about forging signatures. Guess what? We had a forger at Hallett. Between tracking down all the parties involved and going through the interrogation process, it took over an hour. What else was Walter not getting done while he was dealing with that? The person was fined and suspended for the weekend, but do you think that will be the last time someone forges a signature?

And as far as rules being enforced equitably or consistently, every organization/business has staff who are people. All of them are human and not all of them are as clear on all of the rules/procedures as others. But the current CMRA administration has made a point of treating everyone in the club the same, regardless of name or competition number.

Nancy Selleck
05-17-2005, 08:43 PM
David, I agree with what you're saying. The point that I'm trying to make is that if we fined or suspended or escorted out (or whatever the penalty) everyone who gave the staff a bunch of guff, we'd have no time to put on the races.

If each staff member carried around a small notebook to jot down each person and their rule infraction, the lists would be pretty long. And repeat offenders would take up at least one whole page.

We tell people what to do or not to do. We run to the next problem. We tell that person what to do or not to do. We run to the next problem and do it all over again. We don't have time to put each person in a penalty box until the end of the day when we can deal appropriately with each infraction. We have to do it on the fly and hope that the person in question will listen and not do it again.

Here's one example from this past weekend: I made a huge post here on the message board about forging signatures. Guess what? We had a forger at Hallett. Between tracking down all the parties involved and going through the interrogation process, it took over an hour. What else was Walter not getting done while he was dealing with that? The person was fined and suspended for the weekend, but do you think that will be the last time someone forges a signature?

And as far as rules being enforced equitably or consistently, every organization/business has staff who are people. All of them are human and not all of them are as clear on all of the rules/procedures as others. But the current CMRA administration has made a point of treating everyone in the club the same, regardless of name or competition number.

Alan Etheredge
05-17-2005, 09:20 PM
To Derrick Smith, all the way back to your comment/question 1) .... as you know I was the person in registration that you asked about using bikes during endurance practice. I understood your questions to be exactly as you related them above, and you may recall that I got on the radio to ask "upstairs" for the answer. I aparrently miscommunicated your question because I understood the answer, which you accurately stated above, to be that you could run both bikes in practice. Per Walter's post I was wrong and gave you the wrong answer.

I'll go on the record here and say that you certainly were not trying to "get away with anything", you tried to do the exactly correct thing (ask a person wearing a "race offical" shirt) and you got an incorrect answer from me.

I apologize, I learned something here, and sincerely hope that you were not too terribly harmed by the misinformation you got from me.

Alan Etheredge
05-17-2005, 09:20 PM
To Derrick Smith, all the way back to your comment/question 1) .... as you know I was the person in registration that you asked about using bikes during endurance practice. I understood your questions to be exactly as you related them above, and you may recall that I got on the radio to ask "upstairs" for the answer. I aparrently miscommunicated your question because I understood the answer, which you accurately stated above, to be that you could run both bikes in practice. Per Walter's post I was wrong and gave you the wrong answer.

I'll go on the record here and say that you certainly were not trying to "get away with anything", you tried to do the exactly correct thing (ask a person wearing a "race offical" shirt) and you got an incorrect answer from me.

I apologize, I learned something here, and sincerely hope that you were not too terribly harmed by the misinformation you got from me.

derricksmith
05-17-2005, 09:41 PM
Alan,

I understand now that it was a misunderstanding. No other race official spoke with me about the two bikes. I just heard Walter mention it and I was lost on the rule. You do a wonderful job and always help me when I need assistance. When you don't know, you ask while I'm there and that's what I like. You're doing a fine job and I appreciate it.

derricksmith
05-17-2005, 09:41 PM
Alan,

I understand now that it was a misunderstanding. No other race official spoke with me about the two bikes. I just heard Walter mention it and I was lost on the rule. You do a wonderful job and always help me when I need assistance. When you don't know, you ask while I'm there and that's what I like. You're doing a fine job and I appreciate it.

Einstein
05-17-2005, 10:12 PM
My .02 WORTH !!
First I want to say I officially joined the CMRA this year after I walked thru a partial season sponsoring a racer and observing and learning from those of you who have been doing this alot longer than myself. I can honestly say that I have learned ten ways to do everything when it comes to racing and getting prep'd for a race. I have went into tech and have been given grace on getting certain things done to race and other times been told take it back and fix it. Everyone in this club knows that some things are more serious than others to have done on a bike to race. I may not agree with some things such as safety wire on a K&N oil filter but the rules are the rules. The fact is everyone who races in this club has to have integrity to do the right thing. I am appauled that everyone can get so worked up on a bulletin board screaming and yelling or should I say just *****ing.All of these things require only having honesty and doing the right thing. If someone knows they need to have the right thing done to pass tech then do it, It may save your life, your best friend, family member who is riding on the track. Now I now I am carrying on like an old biddy but here is an idea that I believe will help everyone who does endurance.


I think each team should be required to have an individual on the endurace team who is not ridding for safety reasons only. We could make it that the individual be required to attend a CMRA safety meeting before the endurance race, be responsible for making sure the bike is taken to tech and anything that needs to been done is done to tech's standards and all helmets are teched, all papers are signed correctly and not forged and can also be the designated fire extinguisher holder. ( Now I am being sarcastic on the extremities of this but you get the picture )If a problem is seen during the endurance racethat individual is the only one allowed to go to an official. This has been my .02 worth

Einstein
05-17-2005, 10:12 PM
My .02 WORTH !!
First I want to say I officially joined the CMRA this year after I walked thru a partial season sponsoring a racer and observing and learning from those of you who have been doing this alot longer than myself. I can honestly say that I have learned ten ways to do everything when it comes to racing and getting prep'd for a race. I have went into tech and have been given grace on getting certain things done to race and other times been told take it back and fix it. Everyone in this club knows that some things are more serious than others to have done on a bike to race. I may not agree with some things such as safety wire on a K&N oil filter but the rules are the rules. The fact is everyone who races in this club has to have integrity to do the right thing. I am appauled that everyone can get so worked up on a bulletin board screaming and yelling or should I say just *****ing.All of these things require only having honesty and doing the right thing. If someone knows they need to have the right thing done to pass tech then do it, It may save your life, your best friend, family member who is riding on the track. Now I now I am carrying on like an old biddy but here is an idea that I believe will help everyone who does endurance.


I think each team should be required to have an individual on the endurace team who is not ridding for safety reasons only. We could make it that the individual be required to attend a CMRA safety meeting before the endurance race, be responsible for making sure the bike is taken to tech and anything that needs to been done is done to tech's standards and all helmets are teched, all papers are signed correctly and not forged and can also be the designated fire extinguisher holder. ( Now I am being sarcastic on the extremities of this but you get the picture )If a problem is seen during the endurance racethat individual is the only one allowed to go to an official. This has been my .02 worth

David Milner
05-17-2005, 10:38 PM
This is unbelievable. Absolutely and utterly unbelievable.


I'll volunteer. The last few weeks have been very enlightening to me. I've offered any assistance I can to Scott, I've taken over the management of the Whiplash team to give the riders more time to concentrate on getting ready for the race, I'm the mechanic, I'm the pit crew, I'm now taking on the responsibility of getting the team ready to race. But I'll volunteer what time I have left over to the club.

I know that the extinguisher has to be tech'd, the helmets of each rider have to be tech'd, the bike has to be tech'd and since I prep it I make sure it's ready so it passes muster.

I'm at the rider meetings so that I can hear what's said. On the subject of shorts, at TWS, Walter said in the meeting that no shorts were allowed. I put on sweat pants. Is this racing thing so familiar that what's said isn't listened to?

A few of you by far and away surpass my users in the catagory of being the whinyist people on the face of the planet.

I have met a few of the members of the staff, I hope to meet more.

I have one thing to say.

Thank you for your time and effort in making this possible.

To everyone else. If anyone feels like I do. If you have a problem with what I'm doing, I'm right here. I respect the person that can come up to me and have a conversation as to what I'm doing wrong, and I'm open to discussing solutions to the problem. I'll admit it now, I'm not perfect and I have a lot to learn.

If there's an infraction, point it out. If you don't think it's that big an issue, don't whine after the fact.

David Milner
05-17-2005, 10:38 PM
This is unbelievable. Absolutely and utterly unbelievable.


I'll volunteer. The last few weeks have been very enlightening to me. I've offered any assistance I can to Scott, I've taken over the management of the Whiplash team to give the riders more time to concentrate on getting ready for the race, I'm the mechanic, I'm the pit crew, I'm now taking on the responsibility of getting the team ready to race. But I'll volunteer what time I have left over to the club.

I know that the extinguisher has to be tech'd, the helmets of each rider have to be tech'd, the bike has to be tech'd and since I prep it I make sure it's ready so it passes muster.

I'm at the rider meetings so that I can hear what's said. On the subject of shorts, at TWS, Walter said in the meeting that no shorts were allowed. I put on sweat pants. Is this racing thing so familiar that what's said isn't listened to?

A few of you by far and away surpass my users in the catagory of being the whinyist people on the face of the planet.

I have met a few of the members of the staff, I hope to meet more.

I have one thing to say.

Thank you for your time and effort in making this possible.

To everyone else. If anyone feels like I do. If you have a problem with what I'm doing, I'm right here. I respect the person that can come up to me and have a conversation as to what I'm doing wrong, and I'm open to discussing solutions to the problem. I'll admit it now, I'm not perfect and I have a lot to learn.

If there's an infraction, point it out. If you don't think it's that big an issue, don't whine after the fact.

Bob Cronin
05-18-2005, 07:37 AM
Rob-
I didn't realize that you were so sensitive.
Honestly man, you should know how difficult it is to communicate at the track being that close to the race surface. You were standing at least 12 feet away and I needed to get your attention. Would you have any other suggestion short of coming up and tapping you on the shoulder, which by that time, would have been too late! Maybe you would have thought I was assualting you then?
The point is, topping off the fuel (so called), or a regular fuel stop warrants the person to be OFF the bike. My biggest thing is fuel stops. A few years back we had a fire due to fuel getting on the exhaust. So you can imagine that I am a bit sensitive myself about people sitting on the bike.

Bob Cronin
05-18-2005, 07:37 AM
Rob-
I didn't realize that you were so sensitive.
Honestly man, you should know how difficult it is to communicate at the track being that close to the race surface. You were standing at least 12 feet away and I needed to get your attention. Would you have any other suggestion short of coming up and tapping you on the shoulder, which by that time, would have been too late! Maybe you would have thought I was assualting you then?
The point is, topping off the fuel (so called), or a regular fuel stop warrants the person to be OFF the bike. My biggest thing is fuel stops. A few years back we had a fire due to fuel getting on the exhaust. So you can imagine that I am a bit sensitive myself about people sitting on the bike.

Kevin
05-18-2005, 10:54 AM
My last word on the subject. I am a notoriously grumpy old man-sorry thats who I am, and if I fined or suspended everyone who is, shall we say is at the very least, not polite, I would spend my entire three days doing more paper work--I already have plenty thank you. This all still boils down to 2 things. 1) Know the rules. 2)ACT LIKE RESPONSIBLE ADULTS!!!! Finis.

Kevin
05-18-2005, 10:54 AM
My last word on the subject. I am a notoriously grumpy old man-sorry thats who I am, and if I fined or suspended everyone who is, shall we say is at the very least, not polite, I would spend my entire three days doing more paper work--I already have plenty thank you. This all still boils down to 2 things. 1) Know the rules. 2)ACT LIKE RESPONSIBLE ADULTS!!!! Finis.

Cathy Page
05-18-2005, 11:20 AM
At the previous CMRA race my team got slapped with what I would consider a substatial penalty for a rule infraction. It was indeed our fault and we are trying to take the penalty in stride. I don't like it, my team doesn't like it.
We took a hit for an infraction that is serious, although not near as seroius as a helmet or fire extinguisher that doenn't meet the task, or wearing shorts in a hot pit etc.

I can guarantee you that with the penalty we were given our team will NOT make the same mistake again. Why not try that philosophy with other rule breakers. Ours was an oversight, some folks are blatently showing disregard to the rules, the officials etc. That to me is very serious indeed and should be inforced accordingly.

If you take away a riders points, or a teams points, or their privledge to ride a race or a race weekend don't you think they might think twice before ignoring a rule or talking rudely to an official?

Yet another suggestion to a continuing problem.

Cathy Page
05-18-2005, 11:20 AM
At the previous CMRA race my team got slapped with what I would consider a substatial penalty for a rule infraction. It was indeed our fault and we are trying to take the penalty in stride. I don't like it, my team doesn't like it.
We took a hit for an infraction that is serious, although not near as seroius as a helmet or fire extinguisher that doenn't meet the task, or wearing shorts in a hot pit etc.

I can guarantee you that with the penalty we were given our team will NOT make the same mistake again. Why not try that philosophy with other rule breakers. Ours was an oversight, some folks are blatently showing disregard to the rules, the officials etc. That to me is very serious indeed and should be inforced accordingly.

If you take away a riders points, or a teams points, or their privledge to ride a race or a race weekend don't you think they might think twice before ignoring a rule or talking rudely to an official?

Yet another suggestion to a continuing problem.